I’m curious as to how Jean found out about this “machine tragedy”, given that she’s now outside of the Las Vegas gambling world. Jean, did you read about this news someplace, or did someone contact you to tell you?

I have a couple of responses to others’ comments.

First, to be exact, that figure of $8/hour profit is not actually true. Assuming that you play long enough over a long period of time to achieve normal results, and play perfect strategy, there’s still virtually no way you could achieve that figure. To hit it, you would have to put $1,052/$1,053 through the machine per hour, and I find that almost impossible. I have played on lightning-fast machines, and the most I could ever get through the machine in an hour was $1,000 (800 hands), which equates to a profit of $7.60/hour. But not all machines are that fast. Many folks have been playing on machines that are slower. Also, not all players can or want to play as fast as they can, but rather, they want to enjoy their playing session. Finally, I firmly believe that most players do NOT know perfect (or even optimal) strategy. And even knowledgeable players often make mistakes, such as keeping 22FF (2 deuces and 2 flush cards) and going for the flush that will only pay 2 for 1. So, just for us folks (inside and outside of our groups) who are knowledgeable, the true profit per hour is likely between $6 and $7. But for all players, I think the actual player edge/gain is more like $4/hour. Ignorant players will make extremely bad decisions, such as always holding a single face card, something correct in Jacks but dead-wrong in Deuces. So, since I believe the real potential loss per hour for the casinos is only half of what’s been stated in this discussion, it makes Stations’ decision look even more pathetic. This is just one more example of how executives are often just plain stupid and foolish. Their decision will prevent an unknown number of players from patronizing their casinos. That includes me; I just began a relationship with Boulder Station in 2019; now I have no reason to play there. Alas.

As to reminiscing about long-ago Deuces plays: A Deuces Wild Progressive at Palms was mentioned, but nobody has mentioned that the Frontier also had a DW Progressive. It was against the south wall right inside its main entrance area. A progressive DW game will have an EV higher than the base 100.76. But getting back to basic FPDW, this is the game on which I got my first max-coin royals (even though I was playing with someone else’s money and thus couldn’t derive the financial benefit to go with the psychological zing). I played at Main Street Station and got my first one, then during the same trip, I played at the Plaza and got my 2nd one there. My benefactor got a $1,600 profit from my play on that trip, and I was happy for that.

Right now, the best game we can find at a Vegas casino that has low variance and earns you any amount of perks with a casino is NSUD, which has an EV of 99.73 and a variance of just 25.78.

How many people would actually care about the $8? I am not sure what statistics are available to show the casino would have the number of patrons that care about $8.
The casinos that give you some “old Friendly” feeling have looked at those #’s and really don’t care….

Martin, some casinos that have a limited selection of machines, really don’t care if you are a knowledgeable VP player or not. Sometimes one person will get to their “lucky” machine and stay for 4-6 hours. Some people will play a machine no matter what the EV is.

These machines were net profitable for Stations. A player might stop at the tables–or wifey might have a slot fetish–or let’s go to the steakhouse; there were plenty of reasons for Stations to give up that humongous $8 an hour in order to get people in the door. Just like cheap buffets, fullpay video poker is a loss leader. Or should I say…”was.”

I can only attribute the death of good video poker to a short-term results-focused corporate mentality that doesn’t just want massive profits–it wants them in every department and aspect of operations. That’s because the people running casinos today are bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs who don’t have and never had a clue about what makes a casino successful. Those who understood that giving the player value pays off in the long run are long gone.

History : I got him off the coin spinner slots and he fell in love with FPDW (sgl-line .25c)! He’s been quite lucky too- having hit multiple Royals at Sam’s Town (He was glad to hear they’re still there, but due to the new B-Connected system, he feels he can’t gain much value anymore there). He’s also done well at Gold Coast and has hit a few at Main Street Station and the Fiestas – mainly Rancho but also in Henderson. He used to get monthly mailers from many of these casinos with free rooms, etc. Further out – he used to call the River Palms in Laughlin his next best FPDW home – remember the video poker wharf area – a whole casino section dedicated to VP players! And finally, he even hit a progressive at the Silver Legacy (when they had FPDW and Prog RF there). I doubt if they do now that it’s another large corporate owned group…..but the memories were great and FPDW was a great game for my dad to learn. His brother (My uncle) lived near Sunset Station- and he’s had a royal there as well. He even played a few times at the Palms, but never really liked playing there vs. Gold Coast (more machines at the time or it could have been the music/atmosphere of the ‘hip’ Palms vs. GC). I did teach him NSUD, but now his aging brain sez, it’s just too complicated to remember the differences and learning a new game….Well, he’s happy now, and doesn’t really need the recreational play anymore; he’s quite happy just enjoying his life in suburbia Los Angeles (plenty to do and see in that city!). Thanks for reading….maybe others can write their memories of favorite casinos that had this positive e.v. game called FPDW……..
**Who remembers Odyessey Quick Draw 4-line FPDW? I think this also was only around for a few short yrs at Sam’s Town…..and select places, ….funny how ST is the last place to keep them. I don’t recall Bally GameMaker machines ever having a “FPDW” game in it, but I did like the graphics of those GameMakers (for Pick’em);
I also did search vpFree, surprised to see even Skyline and other local joints have finally downgraded or removed the games completely, guess it was only a matter of time… e.v. too costly to bottom line for the owners, I guess. *You’d think they’d be ok to keep it in sgl-line nickel denom….as a lure to bring peeps in ..but that’s just an outsider looking in.