We all have lost money in a machine or at the tables in a casino – that is a usual event! But when we have some stolen from us through a purposeful criminal action in a casino, or we have lost some because of a forgetful action on our own part, then that is not so usual. However, by the chatter after I shared Brad’s and my recent experience with this latter event, it seems that it happens more often than one would think. It has generated a lot of discussion, both in the comments here and in private e-mails to me. The subject also spawned a long thread on the vpFREE Internet forum.
Just what is the law on lost-and-found money in a casino?
It seems that there is no definitive answer, despite input from people who have actually had these experiences, the opinions of lawyers, and reported actions of casino executives. Like so many issues connected with casinos, it seems the standard answer is “it depends.”
First, it depends on the state where you “lose” the money. Some states have laws that give specific details about these sorts of incidents. In fact, one time I saw a sign in a casino – but I forget what state this was in – that explained something about found money not belonging to people who had not put money at risk in the first place. Our incident is an example of this. The person who cashed out our $1510 ticket had not put any money in the machine in the first place. (A side comment here: A casino visitor whose main purpose is to look for credits left on machines – and there are more “pros” with this “job” than you might think – would never just cash out a ticket like the person who took ours. They would always sit down at the machine and put in some money – they have tickets of small amounts readily stashed in their pockets. Then they would usually play at least one hand, often just one coin at the lowest denomination, before cashing out. This muddies the water a bit if the casino is trying to track things and gives the person a little more time to go to a kiosk and cash out and make his escape. This tactic also gives them a “defense”: “I didn’t notice there were already credits on the machine when I started playing!”)
Now, speaking specifically of the laws of Nevada. No two cases are exactly the same, so as usual the devil is in the details. One lawyer commented, “It is not always reliable to research legal issues on the Internet. You might find a statute that a court has interpreted differently or miss other statutes that control over the one you found.” Another lawyer, who specializes in gaming litigation, said that he believes that as long as the machine with credits has been abandoned, the other party can cash out the machine without violating Nevada law. However, he cautioned that the other party cashing out must not have a reasonable belief that the player will return.
This opinion addresses the difference between “finders-keepers” and definitive criminal action. We had experience with the latter some years ago at a Strip casino. I was standing at my machine talking with a friend, with my back to the cash-out button which was on the aisle side of the machine. A very smooth crook came along and pushed the button, grabbed the ticket, and walked away, all so quickly and quietly that I didn’t see or hear a thing. In fact, I didn’t notice anything wrong until a couple of minute later when I sat down and started to play and then realized that I didn’t have any credits. That incident didn’t turn out as well as this last one of ours. They traced the ticket, but it was cashed at a kiosk within a couple of minutes and the perp was long gone. The casino never offered to check video tapes, so it was losers-weepers for us.
Nevada casinos generally seem to think and act as if the law is cut and dried about incidents like ours, but some lawyers feel that people charged with a felony could perhaps persuade a court that what they did was not a crime. However, the expense of such a fight might make someone decide that it was better to just pay back the money rather than risk being charged. On some issues, like losing money or chips on the casino floor or accidentally leaving credits on a machine when the casino doesn’t choose to pursue criminal charges, you might have a civil legal matter. However, again, there is expense in this and casinos may not always want to help you, i.e., by providing video tapes that might show you who took your moey.
So many “depends”!! The state? The exact details? The casino policies? Interpretations of laws? All I know for sure is that I don’t want to ever get mixed up in these “depends” again – so I am going to be more careful in the future!
In my next entry, I will answer some of your questions about this incident so if you are still puzzling over anything, put it in the comments and I’ll try to address it.
After leaving credits on a machine post a hand pay, I walked off a few feet, came back, and ticket was gone. Security looked at tape, saw guy, described him to me and yeah, he had talked to me, played all around me and congratulated me on my win! Security said he took ticket to another machine, put his card in and played, cashed out, played again with his card. Why, if they could identify him, could they not insist he pay back my money? Nothing was done, I guess he played there more than I did. Tunica Harrah’s did not say he would be barred or offer to pay me back even though he wasn’t winning and they got it back in his play. Yes, I am very diligent now, but Harrah’s little star is a lot dimmer in my book!
At the Atlantis in Reno, after you hit the “Cash Out” button, you have to hit “Cash Out” on the screen as another level of security before it will dispense the ticket.
To dispense gas using my credit card, I have to enter my zip code first. For a video slot machine or poker, why not put a numeric keyboard on the screen where you have to enter your four-digit player card PIN after you hit the “cash out” button…or the ticket will not come out. If you don’t have a player card, you would be required to enter one before starting your session.
Seems like a no-brainer, but there might be some technical issues that would get in the way.
Jean, I have been on the other side of the coin myself. I was in a casino and went to play a machine I liked and a
lady was already on it. So I set down a few away from it
hopping she would leave soon. She finely did and I cashed
out my machine and went to the other one and put my bill in
it and card and made sure my card was accepted, I’ve had
a lot of problems with the card being accepted at first and then some time later it said reinsert card. That ticks
me off. anyway after a few hands on the machine the lady came back and said she had forgot her money in the machine.
I thought yah Right, till I looked at the total and saw what it was, so I told her I’d call an attendent and let them figure it out. He put his card and key in it and brought up a history of cash in and out on the machine. and said she was right, and printed out the ticket and gave her the money she had in it before
I sat down minus the 3 hands I had played. so everyone was happy.
Just spoke to a guy tonight that helped an elderly man find his machine that he had forgot his ticket at. The older man had hit his cash out, and walked away, but came back shortly ahd was looking at the machines with a puzzled look. The guy stated he asked him if he had lost something, and the older gentleman said “ya, I can’t remember what machine I was on, and never grabbed my cash out ticket”. The guy went machine to machine, found his ticket and gave it to him. See, there are nice people in the world.
Casinos tend to have some unsavory people, and I’d never turn my back on my machine to talk to someone without cashing out. These parasites are like pick-pockets, and the casino can’t be responsible for this type of behavior. Like when I was a kid, and my mom would say “oh, in a crowd put your wallet in your front pocket”, same issue in the casino… always keep an eye on your money.
I once lost a ticket for nearly $200!. I have a routine that I always place it in my my wallet before I leave the machine. However my card had not been working in the kiosh’s for the promotions and the players club kept telling me to come back. Well I was into this situation for 2 and 1/2 days and I was playing a lot and losing chances at the promotions. Going back and forth really threw me off and by the time I realized my ticket was gone,I did not know where I lost it, in the casino? A good example for not “chasing comps”. The value of these comps were a lot less than $200
I had a fortunate experience at our local casino here in Dubuque, Iowa. I was playing at the sportsbar after ordering a couple of hamburgers to bring home and when the food was delivered, I left my players card and credits in the machine.(yes like a dummy)
I got a call from the casino who had pulled my card and credits, and returned them to me a day later.
Jean, I can tell you that this has happened to me TWICE in the last three years. I left about $125 in a machine at one casino, along with my players card, when I left to go to the restroom. I remembered before I got there, went back, and the TI/TO was gone. Then a month ago in Vegas I played at another casino, wrote down my winnings/losses, got up and left both the TI/TO and my players card. I remembered about ten minutes later when I arrived at another of the same property’s casinos. I figure it wasn’t worth the effort to go back to the initial casino…about 15 minutes walk back.
So, I hope I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON!!
If you leave the casino, you lose all rights to your credits, the casino is not responsibe for your money, you are. How many people would take the credits to the cashier and say someone forgot to cash out, not many, maybe if they won ten grand maybe, don’t expect the casino or the person that found your credits to be resonsble for your acts, just chalk it up to experience, It was YOU TO LEFT THE CREDITS. Be realalistic, their are no mistakes in the universal of things, who knows maybe the person needed the money a lot more then you did.