A big thank you for all who have used the comments section here or on my Jean Scott Facebook page, or written private e-mails, to express their appreciation for the detailed Cherokee trip report. I see a pent-up desire to hear more casino stories, while so many are impatiently waiting to get back to begin their own.
And yes, you’ve had many questions for me, all of which I’ll try to address!
One of the biggest issues that was brought up was the high denomination I was playing: $25-a-hand video poker. I realize that most readers here don’t have the bankroll or relish the risk for this kind of play. Because of that, when I first started writing this report, I considered giving just a general description of the trip with no math details. However, sometimes I’ve been accused of being just a sunshine girl, only talking about the winnings, jackpots, and positive adventures. In fact, I’m pretty much a tell-it-as-it-is person. And I’ve always tried to show the lows as well as the highs of gambling. No gambler, no matter how knowledgeable or skilled, wins all the time.
So I emphasized with details how you must check the math of your play, be aware of what the risk is, and be absolutely sure that your bankroll and risk tolerance was strong enough. And in spite of a nice last-minute jackpot, we did lose. Those are lessons you must learn, even if you’re playing dollars or quarters. If you’re a dollar player, go back to the previous parts of this report and divide all the numbers by 5 for an idea of how much you’ll need and what can happen if you’re playing NSUDs at $5 a hand instead of $25.
Many of you wanted to know if you could do what we did at a lower denomination, specifically at this casino. In a word, “No.” I didn’t make a complete check, but it seems there are no video poker games at Cherokee at a lower denomination with as high an EV as the 99.7% we were playing. If you go to vpFree2, the next best game listed under $5 is a $2 game of what is called “Illinois Deuces” (1-2-3-4-4-9-15-25-200-800), with an EV of 98.91%. And the few quarter VP “fun” games I checked out in the All Star machines (Ultimate X, Spin Poker, multiline, etc.) had scary low-pay schedules. My advice would be to accept the fact that you’ll be doing recreational, rather than advantage, play if you want to play VP at your more comfortable lower-denomination level and that’s all right. You might want to cut down your time in the casino and enjoy more of the glorious outdoor activities.
This is a good place for me to temporarily stop talking about Cherokee and do a little venting. Recently, I’ve heard some podcasts and have read some gaming writing – in various blogs, gambling forum chats, and even in the comment section here – that actually made me mad. I just hate it when long-time skilled and professional gamblers put down other players. They question others about whether they’re playing with an advantage. They’re rude when newbies ask “stupid” questions. They mention their own “superior” methods to judge other’s “inferior” actions.
Have they forgotten the steep learning curve back when they didn’t “know it all”? And most of all, have they not learned that not everyone in a casino has the same goal? Those who plan to make money, much less make a living, are in an extremely tiny category. The majority of players are simply looking for fun; they’re recreational gamblers. It’s a good thing that most gaming writers are experienced gamblers and they have valuable information to share with us to help us gamble smarter. But no one wants to be insulted or ridiculed for a basic question or put down for their differing gambling goals and choices.
I’ve tried to remember this, though perhaps I’ve been guilty of some of these failings in the past. I’m a born teacher and sometimes that can be a bad thing. I want to help people so badly that sometimes I become pretty forceful. (Ask my younger sisters, my daughter, and my grandchildren about that! 😊)
Actually, before I started writing my last book, The Frugal Gambler Casino Guide, I re-read all my previous books and realized that they were too “narrow” for the current casino climate. I needed to help all gamblers, not just those wanting to be “gambling students.” So I got rid of the gambler pyramid, a ranking which seemed a bit too judgmental. Instead, I promoted a new goal that would include almost every casino visitor: losing less! This would be a worthy goal no matter what game or denomination you played.
And this Cherokee report gives an example of how I’ve put my new outlook into personal action. I still work hard to lose less, but I’m not ashamed to admit that the recreational part of this trip was just as important as the gambling part.
Stay tuned for more questions to be answered ahead.
Jean, thanks for your insight and most of all your teaching us so many things. I think as a teacher you might feel that you are rather “forceful” but just like learning anything repetition is key. I also think that you really give us so many facts that of course we go into the casino with our eyes open and don’t think it will be a cake walk .
Sometimes the people who go to the casino will check out schedules and still have FUN even if we only win a little or lose a little. We are all different and have different ideas of what kind of experience we want in a casino……We also know and practice proper play on VP hands Please keep giving us those “forceful hints”
Hi Jean, on episode four, you mention playing to max tier level. What did that level return? It seemed to be an important goal for you,. Thanks, Denis McIntosh.
It is all about the thrill of victory and sometimes the agony of defeat. But hey, it’s fun to gamble! Odds? “Never tell me the odds”-Han Solo. You may win some money.
Last week at a local casino, my buddy and I walked into a REALLY hot craps game. We both won 100’s of dollars and he was betting on the hard ways! Every number was getting hit. My heart was racing over 90 BPM most of the the time.
When that shooter finally “sevened out” , I got my first ever $500 chip. Boyeeeee!
We were smiling all of the way home. You just never know. Sometimes, you have to get LUCKY.We did.
Thank you Jean for your blog. It’s one of my go-to places in my morning.
AMEN to the idea that people are different, and that’s fine. I’ve read stories from or about “pro” video poker players (not including Bob Dancer) who will fly to Iowa or wherever on a moment’s notice because of an inside tip about some game at some casino, and these guys play so unemotionally that they’re like machines. They are like a different species than us who primarily go to Vegas for fun (but we try to have fun wisely). And different aspects of the experience (e.g. the casino, the specific machine) vary widely from person to person in terms of how much they matter. In addition to whether the spot you are at is freezing, whether you’re getting hit by cigarette smoke, whether the casino is too loud, how fast the machine is, whether the machine has TITO, there’s another aspect that affects my enjoyment: how much I like or dislike the graphics. I love the old video poker machines’ graphics (how the cards look) in a few downtown casinos like the El Cortez, compared to those on newer machines, and some newer machine graphics I really, really dislike, such as SpinPoker. Those robotic “pro” players will think that this like/dislike of mine is ridiculous, while I think that their total lack of emotion is really sad. But Jean is right: Let’s not put each other down by voicing our uncomplimentary opinions publicly. Just know that we are different, and “live and let live”.
I think one source of all the negative comments is that people don’t understand that neither you nor anyone else can (any longer) just breeze into town, play a bunch of positive EV .25 video poker, and be awarded the moon, the sea, and the stars. Not any more! Advantage VP players are virtually a thing of the past, and recreational players have a much, much more challenging path to their goal of having fun without spending (risking) too much money. The $25-a-hand approach is not one that most people could stomach, even though it might be viable for you and may return more comps than your theoretical loss (what you actually lost isn’t all that relevant).
So perhaps you could explain that you played at those stakes because you were essentially forced to, because lower-denomination play a) wouldn’t have earned you the same comps and b) would have exposed you to a greater theoretical loss despite the ostensibly lower stakes. For instance, you would actually have lost more money playing the $2 Airport Deuces (in terms of EV, at least), even though your play amount would have been only 40% of your actual stakes. It’s a distinction that is very important to VP players—higher denominations often provide a lower total -EV than lower denominations.
To the person that asked about lower denominations: on the same machines that have the full pay options at $5 (which also include 9-6 DDB, 9-7 DB and 8-5 ACE$/BP among others), the $1 & $2 options are usually 1 step down. For example 9-5 DDB, 9-6 DB, 7-5 ACE$/BP. If you go to quarters, it’s even worse. And most of the games like STP and Ultimate X are 8-5 DDB, although I think for dollars the STP is 9-5 for DDB. There are also some progressives so those could potentially get interesting if the jackpots get high enough.
What Alex said. +1
Yeah the $25 a hand can be brutal ! My wife and I play together and check out that we are playing correctly according to optimum return, no mistakes allowed. I’m playing with house money from the last, long Reno/tahoe/las Vegas trip but the multi thousand negative days do take some starch out even though you know they are coming most days. I’ve gambled a lot in most areas of the country and never had a positive trip to Cherokee, I’m hoping there is at least a pony in there somewhere. Good health and good luck to all
We haven’t been able to get to Vegas since the Covid outbreak. In fact we hadn’t been to a casino in over 16 months. We finally decided to hit a local casino about an hour forty minutes away. We went in knowing the pay tables were not up to Vegas machines. But we figured in the short term let’s just go and what will be will be.
Last time we were in Vegas we played at the Gold Coast ( our home base when we visit ) and both my husband and I played NSUD . How many royals did we get- ZERO how many times did the four deuces show up- ZERO!
Well at our local casino with an awful pay table my husband got a two thousand dollar royal after a half hour. Just goes to show short term you never know.
I found going from a professional gambler to recreational gambler was very difficult, so I quit gambling. The mindset for making money was too instilled in me! So pleased that you recouped some of your losses during your last trip.
Like a fine wine you get better with age! Thank you
Jean – thank you for your insight. I consider myself an educated, recreational gambler. I look for good games and slot clubs but my end goal is having a good time. I listen to a few podcasts and I find terms like squares and ploppies offensive. Richard Munchkin refers to non-APs as civilians – a good term. How about tourists? If it wasn’t for all the recreational players, do the APs think there would be any games? Thanks again for all the entertaining stories.
thank you for all of the info you give . myself I like to gamble for the fun of the game THANK YOU !!!