For years I have said, “I’m not at war with the casinos but I am fighting the casino edge.” So I have spoken and written about playing smarter so you reduce this edge. This will allow you to stretch your gambling bankroll to provide more entertainment that casinos provide – and for the overwhelming majority of casino customers, this it their goal.
However, a small – and it is very small – percentage of players has found out that by diligent study and hard work they can overcome the house edge in certain circumstances. For these few, although they may still enjoy the entertainment value, the goal is now to overcome the usually negative odds in the casino. It may become a slightly profitable hobby, a small supplement to their regular income, or in just an extremely few cases, their major “job.” (By the way, I have never recommended that people quit their day job to become “professional gamblers.” You will work harder than you ever dreamed would be necessary. And the stress of meeting ongoing financial obligations in a job with such roller coaster results has taken down many a visionary.)
Down through the years casinos have been slow in learning about players who could “beat the house.” They could recognize cheaters and scammers, but couldn’t/wouldn’t believe that perhaps there were some people who were smart enough to find and legally utilize cracks in the casino’s game offerings and procedures. But eventually they saw the light with blackjack card counters and started taking countermeasures. And in the last few years the casinos has awaken and begun to suspect that perhaps some video poker players knew more about the math than the house did.
All of which brings me to the subject at hand – the recent ferocious attacks by casinos on individual skilled video poker players. For several years now there has been many small skirmishes started by the casinos – downgrading of paytables, cutbacks in mailers, curtailing of promotions – but the target was general, the whole video poker community. However, in the last several months, the gambling forums are on fire with stories telling how individual and/or small groups of players are being targeted and “punished.”
I am not going to enter the fray about whether the casinos are “fair” in targeting specific players and whether all their countermeasures are legal. That must be left to gaming commissions and the courts. And I still – at least not yet –am not at war with all casinos. However, I am fighting against the tactics of some. I know times are hard for all businesses in this economy, but for a business like a casino, one that depends so much on good will, I can’t understand some of these recent casino PR disasters in Las Vegas:
1. One casino sent a letter to a number of customers saying they would no longer be welcome to play there. When one player asked why not, the casino said they participated in too many promotions. This is a crime? How many is too many?
2. Another casino made out a big “hit list” and just canceled all the players club accounts on the list. You found out you were on the list when you put your slot card in a machine and it said, “Your account can not be found.” When you went to the club and asked about this, you were given all sorts of explanations by the embarrassed and mostly uninformed employees: you played only on bonus point days, you played only on certain machines. One persistent customer questioned the first explanation and showed her records that she played a lot on non-bonus days. No dice – no way to get off the dreaded list. Some couples who had played the same machines on the same days for years – one was on the “hit list,” the other wasn’t.
3. On March 1 one long-term loyal customer gets his usual monthly mailer from his favorite casino, full of the usual free play coupons and other perks. On March 3, the host calls the customer and is highly embarrassed that she has to tell him that the management is immediately revoking his privilege to play video poker in their casino. Throw away your March mailer!
4. A local Vegas casino chain puts a large March insert in the city’s newspaper. Included are coupons, some for 10x points on certain days. Not surprising these bring in a lot of new and old customers – from penny players to high rollers. Some of the latter sit down at a VP machine and start playing and then out of the blue come a gaggle of security officers who read them an official trespass order and parade them around the casino and out the door. Were these dangerous criminals, or people who had been 86’d before, or were cheating at the machine, or breaking a rule by using someone else’s card. No, these were simply players who had played heavily at this casino before and the casino didn’t want their heavy play again on a multiple-point day. One player said it seemed like they just didn’t want to “punish” them but to publicly humiliate them as well.
Tune in later this week when I will discuss this topic further – and give the casinos some free advice!
It’s clear to see that Boyd Gaming doesn’t give a shit about their loyal local players from what I’ve read. I’ve stopped playing there a long time ago.
As for Palms… I started playing their more and hit a Royal Flush like two months ago and since then I have gotten NO free play, NO free gifts. It makes me sick to here George Maloof say “Palms slots pay lots” and that there looser. Ha… My ass!!! How can you bust through $300.00 and NOT hit ONE 4 of a kind. How can he say and advertise the Palms is loose?
My real beef is with South Point. “WE LOVE YOU MORE” hutup!!! Not video poker players. They screwed them all. I used to get $30.00 a week and free food. Now $5.00 a week and $15.00 off any restaurant. Really… who’s going to go to any casino for $5.00. They said It’s because you get more return on video poker… Then how come I’m loosing? I’m not hitting anything. We should all boycott the casinos. Screw them like they screw us.
Quick Books and John Glen
What is it that you don’t understand about the words “find and legally utilize cracks in the casino’s game offerings and procedures”???? I suppose you advocate not taking advantage of legal tax write offs as to not upset the government? Sheeshhhh…
I have been a loyal Coast Casino player and when Boyd Gaming took over the comps have gotten small and cheap no matter how long you play and the VP paytables are horrible i sure miss those 10/7 machines.These days i take the bus from Phx to Laughlin on those turnarounds about once a month we play at the Golden Nugget they have the best VP anywhere and have plenty of the older coin in machines and i get better comps here too. I to join you in the fight against the casino edge!
Perhaps if Bob Dancer wasn’t trying to teach the world how to play V.P. properly we might all have a chance at making a few bucks now and again. No wonder the casinos are doing what they are doing. Think about it.
My dear Mrs Scott,
It amazes me that the advantage VP players are talking about being at war with the Vegas casinos. How do players go to war with no ammunition or ability to mount an assault on casino properties? Obviously the casinos can pretty much do whatever thsy want to individual players with impunity!
I personally feel that they’re acting somewhat desperately by enacting some of these measures. They put themselves in the position they feel they’re in by catering so lavishly to the high roller advantage VP players. Now that they realize it isn’t beneficial to them they’re overreacting.
As long as Boyd casinos and the Four Queens continue to treat my wife and me the way they have for all the years we’ve been going to Vegas we’ll continue to go. We are strictly single line nickel/quarter players that use a simple strategy for the games we play (9/6 JoB and 8/5 BP). We have comped rooms at the Gold Coast, Sun Coast, Fremont. Main Street Station/California and the Four Queens. I admit that we’ve been lucky, especially me! I personally wouldn’t set foot in Vegas if they didn’t comp me a beer that I can drink (high end beer snob). Ellis Island has a great micro, but they don’t have rooms so I only play there once in a great while. I have boycotted MGM/Mirage and Harrah’s/Caesars Entertainment for years because they had no machines. Vegas is still a great place for the “average” gambler (despite what leaving las vegas says about us). Use strategy and play low volatility games to make your bankroll go as far as possible. Ask for comps and enjoy your free rooms and food. We’ve always gotten free food for our nickel play so a large bankroll isn’t necessary. You will need to move up to quarters for free rooms probably.
I hope you and Brad continue to have good fortune in all that you do. Isn’t it about time for another installment of Brad’s ascent in the gambling world?
The irony of Jean’s blog post is that the casino is being treated unfairly. Advantage VP players, like card counters, take unfair advantage of casinos by turning the EV tables on the house. The games are ONLY fair when the house has the advantage.
Jean, we’ve been reading your column for years and have enjoyed it. We are not whales or VP experts, but enjoy a playing and have gone to Vegas for the past 30 years just to get away and have some fun. We used to go to your town four times a year regularly. Now maybe once. The Vegas casinos need to realize that they’re not as attractive as they once were. We’re in Texas and we can visit nearby states for gambling and entertainment more easily than fly to Nevada. With other states (including Texas) considering gambling, why would we travel so far to entertain ourselves? They need to offer MORE not less value for our dollar or we’ll just stay home and take a day trip to Louisiana and deposit our money there. Your comments so far seem to be from very experienced and wise LV gamblers. We’re just casual visitors and wanted to express our opinion. Come on LV Casinos, WAKE UP! Give us something to be excited about again! We want to come back but we get what’s happening. Shame on you for disrespecting the players who frequent your casinos and maybe actually “win” something. This makes my hair stand on end. If this is how you treat your loyal players, I cringe to think how the average players are being fleeced. ‘Nuff said, thanks Jean for your hard work and informing us little guys about the inside workings of LV.
As a Cali girl, hubby and I have headed to Vegas a few times a year for nearly 20 years for gambling and R&R. Last few trips we have noticed that casinos seem much tighter about everything from gambling to food offerings on the higher end buffets, to room upgrades. Too many employees behave as though they are doing you a huge favor by letting you spend your cash there. The fun vibe is definitely waning in this town. Hopefully, the pendulum will start to swing back in favor of the gamblers/guests soon…otherwise we head to the Bahamas. May not allow as frequent trips but they know how to treat guests and make things FUN.
Jean this is a very emotional issue as highlighted by all the comments you have received.
The original article written by you, is very professional without resorting to finger pointing. IMO listing the casinos would only add to the negativity that is already present.
Personally as one of your loyal followers I would rather
have the casinos not think of you as “the enemy”. As Vegas is always changing, I’m sure you will continue to find deals. Granted some of these deals will not be as good, but a deal is a deal.
Life is too short and change is constant.
Easy to find the answer to WHICH casino.
Stations for one, trespassed the players for playing the multiple point coupons.
Silverton, had the list of players who were “no longer to participate in promotions” but will able to use their cards.
M cancelled players accounts.
Sun Coast also “threw out” players for the 10x point play.
You just never know when you are going to be on the “bad list.”
The war started years ago. The great recession accelerated it. As far as AP’s are concerned the
war in Vegas is over. A few still fight on, but all
know the end is nigh.
It must make the casino spys very happy to see that
the AP’s are losing. It will give them a thrill
to show this to their bosses and show how they
rooted out the evil scum-sucking pros. But they
are such morons. Tbey cannot see the big picture.
They have no clue that this tactic, though effective
against AP’s is destroying the core of their business.
And in all cases to date, their methods have been
grossly inferior. They kick out poor players who
happen to get a little lucky and often leave
pros alone simply because they are too stupid to fine
them all.
And although the AP’s are, by and large, defeated,
the real war is still raging.
The morons in the casino industry are waging war on ‘
all gamblers. Vegas was built on Gambling, followed
by mystique and entertainment.
Riverboats and reservations offered immediacy, but by
and large, poor gambling. They added to the success
of Vegas
This has changed!
Vegas now has the highest cost and worst games on
the whole. 6 to 5 blackjack, swapping 8/5 JOB
for 9/6 JOB (qunitupling the house edge) slashing
promotions and mailers, resort fees, and hosts of
other actions have ruined the GAMBLING in Vegas.
Part of this general approach has harmed the AP’s
to be sure, but it has also hurt the regualr
gamblers.
Vegas is lucky that the public is slow to catch
on. Once they do, Vegas is dead, deader and
deadest.
The evidence that they are losing this war is
solid. The recent large number of visitors has been
accompanied by a significantly lower level of
action. The insanely high estimated losses per
player have not rematerialized and the casinos
had way too much exposure to any kind of downturn.
When the great recession came, the casinos
panacked and ramped up their assault on players
as a short-sighted attempt to meet revenue
demands.
When business respond to economic stress by
DECREASING the quality of their product, they
are sure to suffer greatly.
So it is indeed war. The casion execs probably
get all happy when they see the pros jumping
ship, but this small gain is part of an overall
strategy that is doomed to fail
Once gamblers realize that gambling in Vegas is
a sure way to lose and lose quickly and when
they get tired of paying through the nose
for things and when the cost to travel to Vegas
adds to the misery, they will simply stop coming
to Vegas except maybe to see a show.
Vegas exists because of gamblers. Attacking
gamblers, the core of the casino business is
pretty much insane.
Vegas is not dead. The casinos could return to
games that shear the sheep in preference to
slaughtering them. The casionso could offer the
BEST games in the coutnry. This would RESTOR
player loyalty.
I am not holding my breath.
The casinos are at war with their customers. This
is a war they can surely win since they set all
the rules. But when the sheep are dead, they are
dead and suddenly their hard earned victory will
be their own demise.
Vegas doesn’t need this, especially in the current economy.
Don’t the managers realize that bad news spreads like wildfire? Promotions is a form of advertising and cost $$$ but then to turn it into good will fiasco makes no sense. Perhaps the people who were wronged could identify the casinos but I don’t know if you could post those comments.
George
Suncoast is the property that had the 10x points coupon and then 86’d some players that utilized it.
Maybe?
I am Leaving Las Vegas. No…. I’m not on a
suicidal alcoholic binge, and thereby able to
attact a hot but equally lost woman. I’m
just heading for greener pastures.
When it comes to the AP, the war is over.
The casinos won. I am sure a few AP’s are still
making money here, but each and every one knows
the end is nigh. I left because I could see it
coming and as a result of dwindling income
sources. In WWII terms, the casions have dropped
nukes and the AP’s(Japaneese) are in the process
of surrender.
Or maybe it is more accurate to say I have decied
to take my action elsewhere. After all, I did not
“lose” anything. I won a lot of money here in Vegas.
Now you would think a casino spy reading this would
be getting a stiffy over this. “Here is a professed
pro admitting defeat. Our measures worked and our
coffers are safe from the evil scum-sucking pros.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.”
Ah, yes. Laugh it up while you can. It won’t
last for long. In fact, you are already losing
the war and you konw it. But you are too stupid
to know why. In fact, the assault on AP’s is
surely a response to the fact you are losing the
war. Its a tiny victory to parade to your bosses
and show how smart you are and how your methods
are saving money.
What you fail to understand is the larger picture
and what is holds for the future of Las Vegas.
Let me explain….
Vegas grew from a tumbleweed infested runt of a city
to a massive gambling (not gaming you lame ass PC
schmucks) Mecca in a mere 50 years or so.
Three major factors were at play.
A monopoly on gambling
The mystique of Vegas, the Mob, etc.
The headliners.
Over the past 20 years or so, the monopoly became
less firm. riverboats and reservations entered the
mix. But the gambling at these destinations was
rarely on a par with the Vegas games. More
importantly, this was in line with public preception.
Vegas was not only the cool place to be, it was
the BEST place to gamble. And since more people
got a taste at home, Vegas grew even richer as
a result.
But all this has changed. Vegas now has some
of the worst gambling in the coutry. And Vegas
perks for players have also descended into
the abyss. Casinos swap 9/6 JOB for 8/5 JOB,
which quintuples their edge vs. skilled play
and wreaks similar havoc against the unskilled
player. 6 for 5 BJ is a travesty and I’ve never
seen it outside Vegas. Slot machine win
percentages have skyrocketed.
The corporations have been ruining Vegas for quite
some time. The state regulators were short-sighted
when they allowed the mega casion groups of MGM,
Harrah’s, Stations, and the Boyd Group. Many of
the changes I describe were underway long before
the great recession. The great recession only
served to accelerate the process.
Times were tough. Casinos felt massive pressures
to balance the books. Their business models based
on massive per customer losses were exposed to be
as foolish.
And, being the morons they are, they panicked.
They attacked their core business, gambling
by reducing offers, adding in bogus “resort fees”.
offering a multitude of games with a monster house
edge, and removing any games that offer the gambler
a chance to hang in there or maybe book a win from
time to time. These things I am saying have very
little to do with advantage play. This is casino
wide. It was already getting bad before the
great recession, but the cuts since the great
recession have been far deeper.
Now I realize the average gambler has the intellect
of an earthworm, but if you set fire to an earthworm,
it WILL CRAWL AWAY.
Sheep are for shearing, not slaughtering.
The Mystique and headliners are great draws and
offer a competative edge that has been in place
for decades and was in no way harmed by the
great recession. But none of this matters at all
without gambling. Kill the gambling and the
rest will blow away like the sand it rests upon.
Vegas is not dead yet. If the casions change
course and offer the BEST gambling in the country
and return to the days of treating players like
friends instead of trying to bleed them for every
nickel every time they turn around, they can
RESTORE customer loyalty when it comes to gambling.
A quick look at Reno supports this. Downtown is,
by and large, dead. These casions have slashed their
games and player perks. The Atlantis and Peppermill,
on the other hand, still offer some good games and
treat their players far better than the Vegas strip
casinos do. They are packed and I presume doing
far better than the other Reno casions.
As for the barring of skilled players…
The casinos have displayed gross incompetence in
this aspect. I’ve heard of too many cases where
players were barred or cut off from perks in
situations where the player was not a threat.
The old saying would be throwing out the baby with
the bathwater.
But even if they managed to screen properly (and
to this date I know of NO casino that has done
this), they alienate people and accelerate the
idea that Vegas is the place where the casinos
f*** the players. If this perception ever gets
as common as “What happens in Vegas stays in
Vegas (well…except VD)”, Vegas will be dead, Dead,
DEAD!
I would cheer thier demise, but I would still
see the event as a bad thing since so many
lives depend upon this industry here in Vegas.
These morons have overbuilt and created pie-in-
the-sky business models that had no ability to
remain profitable or break-even during a
downturn, let alone a recession and now they
are compounding their stupidity by attacking
the core of their business.
Imagine if GM had responded by making it cars
WORSE!!!. (Actually, now that I consider this,
I realize GM was stupid enough to do this during
the late 20th century, but in time they learned
their folly) No business has ever rebounded
from hard times by degrading its product. At best
it got a temporary reprieve during the time it took
for consumers to notice the change.
So yes its war. The Vegas casinos are at war
with their customers, and if nothing changes, they
will succeed in driving them all away. And its
not just Vegas, but Vegas has gone further, much
further, than many other casions across the nation.
Thanks for the info Jean.
Let us know which casinos if you can. Like a cab driver said to me and my buddy in 1984 when asked to take to a place with hot slots “they didn’t build these places on winners”
I wrote a comment to you back in May 2010 about us vp players losing so bad. I’m glad to see your revisiting what the casinos get away with even though the situation is different. They continue to penalize vp players because we do nothing about it. I can understand a person in your position not wanting to be involved when I mentioned a boycott a few days a week. Now it looks like you could soon be told they don’t want your business. I still think the casinos need a wakeup call.
I too, wish you would name the casinos involved…because I would take my business else where!
What terrible customer relations!!!
Wow…this seems to fit right in with LVS tactics of late.
This is pure craziness.
I too would like to know which casinos these are so I can take my business elsewhere!
Can you send us a list of the casinos that do that?
I am speechless, I had no idea
Although I realize you don’t want to shoot the opening shot I sure wish that these casinos would be named so we can all boycott them…this is such BS!