• Home
  • Archived Blogs
    • James Grosjean (AP)
      • About James Grosjean
      • View all posts
    • Bob Dancer (Video Poker)
      • About Bob Dancer
      • View all posts
      • Video Poker Classes
    • Richard Munchkin (AP)
      • About Richard Munchkin
      • View all posts
    • Lou Antonius
      • About Dr. Lou Antonius
      • View all posts
    • Blair Rodman (Poker)
      • About Blair Rodman
      • View all posts
    • FrankB (Sports)
      • About FrankB
      • View all posts
    • Jack Andrews (Sports)
      • About Jack Andrews
      • View all posts
    • Jimmy Jazz (AP)
      • View all posts
    • Anthony Curtis
      • About Anthony Curtis
      • View all posts
    • Guest Bloggers
    • Podcast
  • The Games
    • Bingo Rooms
    • Blackjack
    • Keno Rooms
    • Poker Rooms
    • Video Poker
      • Best Video Poker
      • Bob Dancer Articles
      • Game Room
    • Sports Betting Books
  • Shop
    • Blackjack Strategy
    • Casino Comps & Promotions
    • Casino-Game Strategy Cards
    • Game Protection
    • James Grosjean Strategy Cards (ShopLVA Exclusive)
    • GWAE-Author Products
    • Las Vegas Advisor Membership + Member Rewards
    • Poker-Strategy
    • Sports Betting & Daily Fantasy
    • Tournament Play
    • Video Poker Strategy
  • Arnold Snyder’s Blackjack Forum Online
  • LVA Home
  • Home
  • Video Poker
  • Why Didn’t Somebody Tell Me?

Why Didn’t Somebody Tell Me?

December 4, 2012 Leave a Comment Written by Bob Dancer

On Saturday November 3, I was at the Palms for a special drawing. This was not the typical 7 p.m. weekly drawing open to everyone. This was a special invited guest drawing where fewer than 200 people (based on previous play) had been invited to receive a free cruise — and this group would have a special drawing at 9:30 p.m. where $20,000 in cash, free play, or cruise credit was to be given away.

Play after midnight Wednesday counted for both the regular Friday/Saturday drawings plus the special invited-guests-only drawing. Since these were the rules, I played a total of about $500,000 on Thursday and Friday, figuring it would give me a decent chance at all three drawings. This would basically be my play for the entire month at the Palms.

For the cruise drawing, it didn’t matter on which denomination of machine you played. All video poker games generated drawing tickets at the same rate. But for the regular Friday/Saturday drawings, it mattered a great deal on which machine you played.

For the weekly drawings at the Palms, you receive tickets based on the lowest denomination available on the machine you play. The formula differs a little each month, but basically if you play on machines where 5¢ or lower denominations may be found, you get one ticket per $100 of coin-in. If you play on machines where 25¢ is the lowest denomination, it takes $250 coin-in to earn a ticket. If you play on machines where $1 is the lowest denomination, it takes $500 coin-in to earn that same ticket.

The players who wish to obtain tickets at the lowest-price-per-ticket generally play 25¢ Five Play or Ten Play 9/6 Jacks or Better. This is the loosest game that is eligible for promotions. These machines have 5¢ games on them, so they earn tickets at the highest rate. Playing the Ten Play machine allows you to play at a rate of about $7,000 per hour. Unfortunately, playing $500,000 of coin-in over two days is impossible on these machines.

If you’re going to play more, the best game is 25¢ Hundred Play 8-5 Bonus Poker. This game is quite a bit tighter than 9/6 Jacks or Better (99.17% versus 99.54%), but you can play $60,000 coin-in per hour. Players who play this game are sacrificing considerable EV on the game, but are hoping that the extra chances in the drawings make up for it. (Or, at least, that’s my logic.) Even if you decide to play this game, there is one bank of machines that include 5¢ – 10¢ – 25¢ denominations and another bank where 25¢ is the one and only denomination you can play. If you’re aware of the way they run their weekly drawings, you’ll know that one of these machines creates drawing tickets 2.5 times as fast as the other — for playing the exact same game.

With a 99.17% return for the game and a 0.25% slot club, the total nominal return is 99.42%. This means my expected loss per $100 of coin-in is 58¢, which is a $580 loss per $100,000, or a loss of $2,900 if I play through $500,000. I felt it likely that I would do well enough over the three drawings to recoup that loss. Not to be ignored is the fact that $500,000 play in a month should generate a mailer totaling $450 or so per month for a couple of months.

Anyway, that’s the theory. Anyone who gambles knows that there are swings. I’ve played similar amounts before, lost $15,000 on the play, and then wasn’t called in the drawing. I’ve won big on the play (rather than lose the expected $2900) sometimes as well. It’s the average that’s important to me — not the results over a specific weekend.

This time I did pretty well. I lost a total of $200 on the play, won the last-place prizes in the weekly drawings on both Friday and Saturday–James Bond 50th Anniversary Blu-Ray DVD sets retailing at $350 apiece. (It’s Shirley’s job to figure out who will receive them as gifts, but since her son was named after Sean Connery, I’m pretty certain that I know where one set is going.) I also won $5,000 in the cruise drawing. This was a better than average result (this time) but that’s not why I’ve written this article. At least one person had more tickets than me and was shut out on all three drawings. I’ve been on that side of it too.

Before the cruise drawing, I was chatting with a lady named “Charlotte.” Shirley and I have been friendly with Charlotte and her husband for more than ten years. I mentioned that I hadn’t seen her recently at the Palms. She told me she didn’t participate in the weekly drawings because she never won, but this time she had played heavily and hoped that her luck would be different.

I asked Charlotte how much she played. She told me that she had played $160,000 coin-in on the $2 9/6 Jacks or Better machines. You can play about $10,000 coin-in per hour on these machines, so that means she played two days in a row for eight hours each day. Indeed, that was a lot of play. For the cruise drawing it didn’t matter which denomination you played, so these machines were a decent compromise. They earned more tickets than the 25¢ Ten Play version of the same game and anyone who earned more tickets than Charlotte had to have played a tighter game.

She hadn’t shown up for the 7 p.m. weekly drawings because she “knew” she never won — plus she wasn’t even aware that there were the weekly drawings that weekend. I told her that the machine she had played was not very efficient for earning weekly drawing tickets. The reason she hadn’t won any weekly drawings in the past was partly because she was playing the wrong game/machine mix. Players who intelligently go after winning the drawings there make other choices.

Charlotte then told me that she thought it unfair because no one had told her these things. She was talking to the wrong guy about this. I suggested that if she read the rules, or read my columns, or listened to my radio show, or came to my classes, she would know these things. I told her that Jean Scott and others have written about this as well. She said that she was too busy to do any of that sort of stuff, but still, somebody should have told her. I told her that I just had.

There are relatively few teachers ready and available to instruct you at the exact moment you’re ready to receive the message. No one else knows exactly what you don’t know or don’t remember. And anyone (like a parent or spouse) who is constantly trying to teach you stuff is often tuned out.

Gathering information is an active process. Learning about drawings (or slot clubs or other promotions) is every bit as important as learning how to play the games well. Some folks find learning the games more difficult — some folks find learning about slot clubs and promotions more difficult. But the bottom line is winning players need to learn all of this.

It’s a mistake to think that you can stop learning about all of this and still do as well as those who keep up on it. Some things stay constant in this game (such as how to play a particular hand in a particular game). But a whole lot of things keep changing.

And Charlotte getting angry because other people have passed her by in relevant knowledge is fairly typical. People who struggle to get to the top (as Charlotte and her husband did a decade ago) often want to stay at the top without continuing to struggle to learn stuff. Their feelings are easily understood. But life doesn’t work that way.

Facebooktwitteryoutubeinstagram
Video Poker
Podcast – guest Bob Nersesian #4
Podcast – guest Eliot Jacobson

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Join LVAs Mailing List


Sign me up for:

GWAE Post Categories

  • Advantage Play (653)
    • Advanced Strategy (262)
    • Advice for Players (258)
    • Comps & Promos (75)
    • Game Protection (10)
  • Breaking News (8)
    • News Stories (3)
  • Casino Games (395)
    • Blackjack (31)
    • Craps (11)
    • Other Table Games (13)
    • Poker (33)
    • Slot Machines (5)
    • Video Poker (302)
  • Daily Fantasy Sports (2)
  • Gambling Glossary & Terminology (19)
  • Gambling Online (7)
  • General Thoughts/Opinion (78)
  • GWAE Podcast Episodes (643)
  • Non-Casino Games (3)
  • Reviews: Books, Movies, TV (29)
  • Sports betting (46)
  • Tournaments (2)

Recent Comments

  • coconut on What Would You Do?
  • KOAficionado on Colin Jones (S1 E9): Knockout KISS
  • A McGill on New Blackjack, Same Old Baloney
  • 바카라사이트 on The Cheating Game
  • Bajilive on “You’ve Already Hit the Royal”

Recent Posts

  • Business credit cards for profession gamblers and APs
  • Podcast – Sherriff AP episode 9
  • Spinach!
  • THE IMPORTANCE OF EVALUATING YOUR RESULTS IN BLACKJACK
  • Billy’s Book
Never miss another post

GWAE Bloggers

  • About Andy Uyal
  • About Anthony Curtis
  • About Bill Ordine
  • About Blair Rodman
  • About Bob Dancer
  • About FrankB
  • About Jack Andrews
  • About James Grosjean
  • About Nicholas Colon
  • About Richard Munchkin
  • Bloggers
  • Play Desert Diamond
  • Podcast – attorney Bob Nersesian 12/8/22
  • Podcast – Mickey Crimm 3/23/2023
  • SuperBlog
“Gambling With An Edge” is a unique cyber-hub where some of most-respected minds in professional gambling collectively share their expertise, advanced-strategy tips, insights, and opinions via the GWAE “SuperBlog” and weekly GWAE radio show.
The expertise to be found here spans the full spectrum of casino games, advantage-play techniques, and legal-wagering opportunities in the U.S., with contributors including James Grosjean (AP, table games), Bob Dancer (video poker), Richard Munchkin (AP, author), Blair Rodman (poker), Frank B. (sports betting), and others.

Other LVA Blogs

Frugal Vegas with Jean Scott
LVA Travel
Stiffs & Georges with David McKee
Vegas with an Edge
Powered by LasVegasAdvisor.com copyright 1983-2018 Huntington Press | All Rights Reserved | Privacy Policy