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  • Too Good to be True

Too Good to be True

January 22, 2020 6 Comments Written by Bob Dancer

Somebody sent me this photo of what was undoubtedly a casino mistake. It was sent several weeks before the publish date of this article, so there’s no chance of it still being around. But it’s worth discussing anyway.

There is a bank of eight machines with a nickel 8/5 Double Double Bonus progressive poker game.  This is normally a 96.79% game before you include the progressives, which is fairly typical for a nickel pay schedule.

Except . . . the progressives on the royal and the aces with a kicker are appropriate for a 20-coin bet and you get these progressive amounts for a 5-coin bet. Playing it rapidly, you have a $30 plus per hour game while only betting 25 cents a hand. If you stick around long enough to get either jackpot at least once, it’s basically impossible to lose. Even at reset, you have more than a 12% advantage on this game, albeit for only twenty-five cents at a time. 

You must hit one of the jackpots, of course, to guarantee a win. If the play only lasts a couple of weeks or less, there will always be at least a small chance that you’ll not hit either progressive and you’ll still be behind, regardless of how many hands you play. Still, with a 12% advantage, I really like your chances of being ahead.

Sooner or later, enough players are going to notice this game so that every seat is busy 24/7.  When the casino looks at the huge coin-in (for a nickel game) and the fact that they are losing an average of more than $500 per game per day, they’ll look closer and figure out what the problem is. 

In all likelihood, at this point the casino will end the bonanza. They will probably make it a 20-coin game (which is how it was presumably designed). Once that occurs, winning players will stay away, and regular nickel players will play it.

The guy who sent me the picture was planning on sharing one seat with two other players. Each would play eight hours and pass it off to the next in line. He wanted to know if the casino would retaliate against these players for “taking advantage” of the casino.

It’s a good question. Casinos frequently blame players when players notice casino errors and play them heavily until the casino figures it out. Will this casino do that this time? Who knows for sure?

My guess is that the casino will let sleeping dogs lie and not kick out these players. The size of the error is fairly small. Even if the bank loses $4,000 a day over a week or so, that’s not a lot of money. Were this same error to happen on a dollar machine and the casino lost $80,000 per day, you can bet players would be kicked out left and right. (A dollar game, however, would create W2Gs on royals on straight flushes, so it would be a lot easier for the casino to be aware of these machines. On the nickel machines, the jackpots are less than the $1,200 W2G threshold, so they can remain relatively invisible longer.)

But even for nickels, the casino might retaliate anyway. For this reason, I suggest players should not use their cards when they play and should wear hats while in the casino. When they arrive at the casino immediately before their shift begins, they should be looking down at their cell phones so good pictures are harder to obtain. Use the same technique when exiting the casino, immediately after their shifts end.

When the play ends (and it will, sooner rather than later), avoid going into the casino for a few months. The casino will possibly have given up trying to figure out who played “those machines” by then and the players may well still be welcome there.

If players are already well-known at the casino, these subterfuge techniques won’t do any good. If you’re going to play in this situation (which I wouldn’t recommend), you might as well use your card. They’ll know who you are anyway (even wearing a hat and even not looking directly at the camera), so you might as well get some comps out of the deal. (Playing 1,000 hands per hour yields $250 coin-in per hour and $2,000 coin-in per eight-hour day on a machine that the casino rewards well. If you’re sure you’re well-known there, that’ll add up over a week or more of play.)

Then there are the normal problems associated with three players staying interested in these eight-hour shifts for the duration. One of the players learns of a better play. One has a dentist appointment. One has visitors over the holidays and isn’t always able to keep his shift. Running a “team,” even a small 3-person team that is only put together for one play and does not include any sort of money-sharing, is not trivial. 

Every additional person you tell about the game will make this bonanza that much better known. Eventually you’ll have people hanging out behind the machines waiting for players to quit playing. The casino would not be expecting this to occur on these particular machines and some employee may investigate. This would lead to the demise of the situation.

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Bob Dancer, video poker
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6 Comments

  1. Jerry Jerry
    January 22, 2020    

    In 25 years of playing, I have never seen a pay table like this. But, if I saw a dollar machine that paid $16,000 for a single-line $5 bet, I would report it. Slot hosts know where I am playing when my card is inserted. The cameras know as well.

  2. Candy Wright Candy Wright
    January 22, 2020    

    Probably the “Machine malfunction voids all pays” sign would take care of this problem, if personnel were paying attention in the event of a hand pay situation.. Casino management would no doubt declare this to be a “malfunction.” Which it would be, by somebody. And probably that somebody would soon be out of a job. LOL. In fact, probably most “malfunctions” are in reality human screw-ups (or fraudulent collaborations?) JMHO.

  3. Martin Martin
    January 22, 2020    

    A similar situation happened in a local indian casino many years ago. It was on a bank of Bally GameMaker multigame machines (remember those?) This one had 9/5 DDB game on it with progressives on bonus 4Ks and the RF… I think it started as a 10-coin game for .25c, and this was too high denom for the locals at the time, as it was mostly a slot house. Then one day it was changed to .05c denom, but the techs didn’t set the prog meters correctly, for a long time (as a newbie VP player) i had to think about it; but base quads were $25 and up, so it HAD to be a good play (Later found out it was about +24% or somesuch). Even RF started at $1k reset, but that soon dropped down to $600; even at that amt, though, the casino techs didn’t adjust the 4ks… lasted about 4 weeks…. til they figured it out. Although I really didn’t like “DDB” as a vp game to play, during that timeframe, I learned to ‘like’ DDB very quickly; Only felt like a vp-pro for that short time, but it was fun and profitable while it lasted.

  4. Jere Neese Jere Neese
    January 22, 2020    

    A mis-configured machine is not a malfunction. The casino is legally required to pay all wins in this case.
    Only machines can malfunction, not slot techs. I read something to this effect by gaming lawyer Bob Nersesian. I won a $12,000 progessive royal on a $5 bet on a bank where all the other machines correctly required a $10 bet. The royal then reset to $8000 and they soon fixed my machine to require the correct $10 bet for the progressive.

  5. Pat Holseth Pat Holseth
    January 22, 2020    

    I found a bank of 50 cent 7/5 Jack’s or better in Biloxi 26 years ago.
    There was a progressive on the royal the straight flush and the 4 of a kind.
    The meter was 1 percent across the board.
    However the 4 of a kind started at $125 dollars .
    This made the game better than even without ever hitting the royal.
    They also had a one half percent cash for your poi8
    They closed the bank after on week.
    I protest saying I had driven over an hour to play.
    Later that day they opened the bank again..

    We started playing after two hours they tried to close the machines again.
    I called for management told them my story of driving and if I would quit then they would put $100 dollars on my account and buy us dinner.
    I thought it was over….
    But to my surprise two days later the bank reopened and lasted 6 more months.
    Those wre the says…

  6. Jodi Small Jodi Small
    January 24, 2020    

    Where is this nickel play if it’s still available? Thank you, jodi

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