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  • Unexpected events in team play

Unexpected events in team play

November 11, 2020 6 Comments Written by Jimmy Jazz

In any gambling partnership or team play, it is best to get as many of the conditions set as possible before the actual play starts. The more you iron out ahead of time, the less possibility for disagreement. But, you can’t account for every possible outcome and sometimes, alliances are made on short notice.

Recently, I was in Las Vegas and happened to have a friend’s slot club with me. Coincidentally, he called me on a different matter and I mentioned to him that I had his card and did he want me to pick up his free play. He thought about it and decided to go ahead and have me pick it up. He picks up for me locally with a 25% cut for the nearby casinos and a 33 1/3% for a more distant casino. After he had started picking up for me, he said that he is using the actual amount of the free play as the number and not what comes out of the play. It’s a small difference and I told him as long as he was consistent, either method is fine. So, I said I would take 25% of his free play, treating this casino as a nearby casino.

He thought he had $80 in free play. Turns out he had $350. After running it through (which turned into $350.75), I talked to him and he said he would like to get some play in and not just pick up the free play and run. I agreed to run about $800 through the machines. Not a huge amount but should look better than zero play. Now, we didn’t agree on how to handle this additional play. I figured that since I already took my cut, this was his money and he would assume all the losses and take all the wins. We didn’t formally state that in our conversation.

As I was getting near the end of the $800 in play, I managed to get a dealt Royal Flush in diamonds on a $0.50 machine. I took his card out, handed the slot attendant my license and waited for them to process the handplay. A supervisor came by and asked if I had given the slot person my player’s card. I didn’t, just my license. I said something to the effect that “the slot attendant had all the information she needed”. The supervisor left and again I waited. Now, I should have had state and local taxes withheld but I was a little excited initially. I didn’t want to have them redo the W2G, so I didn’t have anything withheld.  I wanted to keep a lower profile.  I did give the slot attendant a $20 tip, another item that was not discussed.

I called my friend rather late (about 1 AM his time) and told him that I had hit a royal flush on $0.50 play, didn’t have any taxes withheld and incurred a $15 loss (besides the handplay) running his money through the machine.  I said I would withhold an approximate amount for federal (25%) and the exact amount for state. He seemed good with that. We both live in Michigan. I don’t file as a professional so the Michigan 4.25% tax is non recoverable. I will most likely itemize this year ( although it will be very close) so at least some of the federal tax I withheld will be recoverable. My friend files as a professional so it would have been better to put the W2 on his name, but that wasn’t possible.

When I got back home, I met up with him and had all the figures spelled out and gave him about $1400. He asked “Well, what’s your cut?” I said I was just running your money through so I wasn’t entitled to anything. He looked a little puzzled and I said if you want to give me a few bucks, I would accept it but you are under no expectation on my part to do so. He handed me $200 and said, “Is that enough?”. I said that was more than enough and if he offered more, I wouldn’t have taken it.

We have known each other for 20 years and our casino play together is rare but always treated as business. So, if he didn’t give me a penny, I would not have been offended.

There are several things to consider in this situation:

  • Tax implications. I withheld about $600 for taxes. I cannot reclaim any of the state tax but told him I will figure my federal taxes with and without his W2g and refund him any money he is due. Also, I don’t file as a professional but he does.
  • Effect on my play at this casino. Now, this particular casino is one of 3 or 4 where I play quite a bit. I don’t know how they will handle a $0 play day with a $2000 hand pay. Will the finance department contact the slot department? Will this count as a trip for me? Hard to tell. We will be back in Las Vegas at the end of November (unless COVID gets even more crazy) so I should be able to tell if this casino is unhappy with me.
  • Split of the profit/loss. On the free play, when I said I would take 25%, I meant that I would handle it the same way he does. That is, take 25% of the face value. Even though we didn’t explicitly say that, I think we were both thinking the same thing. Now, running the extra money through we did not discuss. He could have lost $100 and I certainly wasn’t going assume part of that loss so I thought it was fairly that I did not assume any of the win. He generously tipped me for the good result. I would have done something similar, but for maybe $100.

So, you need to trust who you partner with. Not just to live by the agreement you have, but to be fair in case a situation is not covered in your agreement. I trust this person to handle a situation like this fairly and I hope he feels the same about me.  By the way, there are a handful of people who I would feel comfortable parterning with and this person happens to be one of them.

You also have to think on your feet a little bit. It would have been awkward if I left his card in the machine and then claimed the jackpot with my license. That may have affected both of our standings at this casino.

You also have look at the risk of what happens when a 1 in 40,000 event occurs in 320 hands.  I might have affected my status at this casino. It will be hard to determine how much, if any, damage I actually did.

In hindsight, playing for quarters would have been the simpler solution. It would take twice as long but avoids all of the tax issues.

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6 Comments

  1. Boris Radtke Boris Radtke
    November 15, 2020    

    What if the casino is giving you heat because you play using a friend’s players card instead of your’s? I read the rules that Boyd has listed and they are quite strict if they figure out that you are using a friend’s card without permission. Not so sure how they would react if I showed them my i.d. and they find out that I had a different slot card in the machine when the Royal Flush hit.

  2. Jimmy Jazz Jimmy Jazz
    November 17, 2020    

    Boris,

    In your reply, you mention using a friend’s card without permission. I wasn’t doing that. I was using a friend’s card with his permission to earn him some points so as not to just pick up freeplay and run. Now, I’m sure this casino would not be happy that I picked up another player’s freeplay. However, they should be happy that I also did some play on his card.

    The reason I wrote this blog was to encourage people to think about the gambling agreements they make and try and consider all of the possibilities.

    Also, you need to consider the consequences for the action you take. I was willing to take the small risk that this particular casino would A) figure out what was happening and B) actually take some punitive action against me. I hope my partner did the same risk analysis.

  3. Boris Radtke Boris Radtke
    November 17, 2020    

    Hello Jimmy

    thanks for responding. My concern is not about using a friend’s card without his permission but using a friend’s card with the permission of the casino doing that. I know that is is common use especially if a casino is handing out freeplay which is only good for certain days and a customer can’t be in town or is too busy and therefore lets a friend play the card and collect the free cash on his behalf. Let’s be honest: The casinos are too big to check each and every customer so this is a thing that is done by thousands , if not 100,000s of customers regularly. I just read the rules of Boyd’s club and in one of the terms and rules this point is listed and if someone is using a different person’s card it’s the discretion of the house to confiscate the card (and the points?). I have never heard of any customer being 86d for doing so but I have heard stories of customers using dozens of cards of neighbors at some locals casinos with huge benefits on a weekly basis. Once the casino figures this out, I am sure that person will no longer allowed to continue playing.

  4. Jimmy Jazz Jimmy Jazz
    November 25, 2020    

    Boris,

    What I did and what some of the organized groups do is very different. Some groups ‘manufacture’ player’s cards so they can take care advantage of a certain situation multiple times. Some groups ‘buy’ slot club cards. And some just have agreements on picking up each other’s free play.

    My situation was one of happenstance. I happened to be at the casino and happened to have his card and happened to talk to him.

  5. Jimmy Jazz Jimmy Jazz
    November 28, 2020    

    Boris,

    Another factor is that we both play at this casino. We don’t create an account by doing a big play on one day and then just grab FP til it runs out. We both play at the casino so an occasional no play day is not such a big deal. It will affect future offers, so you have to take that into account.

    With all the COVID shutdowns, I think casinos will be way more lenient on cutting back offers. Then again, it is very difficult to predict casino behavior.

  6. Jimmy Jazz Jimmy Jazz
    May 11, 2021    

    Update on the tax situation. Brief recap. I hit a $2000 royal while playing on a friend’s card. We didn’t specify how to handle the taxes beforehand so I just withheld 25% federal and 4.25% MI state tax and said I would adjust when I file my taxes.

    I recently finished my Federal Tax return and figured out my tax liability with and without the $2000 royal, so I can make any adjustment needed.

    As it turns out, I was very close to the itemized threshold without the $2000 w2g. But for standard deduction, you also get to claim $300 in charitables. After figuring out the taxes both ways, I withheld more than it actually cost so I will make an adjustment.

    The question is, “What size adjustment?”. I had about about $7800 in W2s, $9800 with the $2000 royal. So, his w2 total is about 20% of the grand total. Should I refund 20% of the difference? Or should I refund the entire difference? If I didn’t itemize, the amount I withheld would be about what it cost me.

    We are going to discuss it on Friday. I want to do what is fair for all involved. I will update after our discussion.

    This reinforces the idea that if you partner with someone on a gambling play, you may encounter situations that you didn’t plan to occur. You have to trust the person you are partnering with to do what is right in these situations. Next time I definitely play quarters.

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