This happened to somebody else in the late 1990s. I think it was at Caesars Palace about four or five owners ago. I don’t think I have written about it previously and it’s worth discussing. I might have some of the details wrong, but overall, it pretty much happened the way presented.
“Al” was playing at Caesars at an event for invited guests. It was the kind of event where you earn one drawing ticket for every $1,000 coin-in. Then at the banquet on the last night, a drawing is held and lots of cash is given away.
Back then the tickets were made of cardboard, and you had to fill each out with your name and player’s card number. Lots of players had a special way of folding their tickets to improve their chances — but today’s story is about something else.
The rules said that you had to have your tickets in the drum by 7 p.m. and the drawing would begin shortly thereafter. Al played heavily for this promotion and showed up at 6:57 with his filled-out tickets in hand. To his horror, he discovered that the drum had already been moved to the stage and two prizes had already been given out. What to do?
Al saw two executive hosts near the back and told them they had to stop the drawing and that he had been cheated out of a chance to be picked for one of the first two prizes. The more senior of the hosts said, “Don’t make a scene. We’ll take care of you after the drawing is over. We’ll figure out how to make sure you end up okay.”
So, what should Al do? If he was going to make a scene to protect his rights, he should speak up immediately. If he was going to trust this host, then he should just shut up.
Al decided to trust the host and see what happened.
After the event was over, Al was called in to see the Vice President of Promotions, or whatever the title was. He knew how many tickets Al had, how many tickets were issued, and how much money was being given away. Al’s fair share was about $4,000, although he could have been drawn for $1,000 or $20,000, or anywhere in between. Even not being drawn at all was a non-negligible possibility.
The vice president went through these numbers with Al and offered Al $5,000 worth of certificates at Caesars Forum, which was a high-end shopping center. Al would have preferred cash, but this wasn’t a terrible offer.
Al’s first instinct was to hold out for $6,000 worth of certificates, but he recognized that it was an unintentional mistake, and the casino was attempting to be fair about this. They had, after all, given away the entire prize pool to other players and this $5,000 in shopping certificates was over and above what they had advertised they were going to give out.
Al didn’t want to appear unreasonable. He could envision holding out for $6,000, the casino giving it to him, but also telling him he was no longer welcome to play there.
So, Al accepted the offer. And then he searched the shopping center to figure out what he could buy that he could convert into the greatest amount of money. That part of the story is worth another entire blogpost, but I don’t have the details on that — and whatever he got more than 20 years ago would likely not be the best choice today. Just the fact that you know he did this might lead you to make better decisions when you receive gift certificates.
I think Al made the correct choice. Sometimes going with the flow is the best idea. Calling attention to the casino’s inadvertent mistake could backfire.
What would you have done?
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I wonder if asking for that same amount in free play would be a worthwhile consideration?
I was going to say essentially the same thing that Jon did. I agree with Bob (and with Al) that there’s no need to make a scene and deal with the potentially negative consequences of that, especially considering that they did give him more than his calculated EV. But that assumes that the gift cards are worth almost as much as cash. Rather than try to push it to $6,000, I would have asked (gently) if there’s any alternative — such as freeplay — that’s more easily converted to cash.
Taking up on the Slot Play suggestion, I’ll note that inherent in any situation such as this is an opportunity to negotiate for an end result that is more valuable than the “starting point”; you just have to be creative and consider the casino’s “ego” in the process.
It’s best to be seen as reasonably seeking some accommodation for a difficulty than try to aggressively improve on what is initially extended.
If $5000 in shopping certificates fits the original bill in terms of reward target for the intended play, then it’s likely a very poor strategy to attempt to negotiate a greater amount. However, citing the inconvenience and disappointment caused by the variation in procedure vs the stated rules, I would merely state that it would better suit my needs if a substitute reward in the form of FSP (or other desired “currency”) were extended. I wouldn’t explicitly request $5000 of the substitute “currency”, but wait to see what they were comfortable offering before deciding if negotiation of that matter was necessary.
Bottom line, ideally I might prefer that I were able to “engineer” exactly this type of aberrational outcome for every promotion in which I participate because it potentially removes the variance element (fear of coming away with nothing), and also presents an opportunity to optimize the outcome.
That’s why I don’t play tournaments anymore. Rigged in favor of the casino’s preferred customers. No ill feelings about it; just the way it is. Their casino, their games.
I think that the most important point is being missed by folks: DON’T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE. This entire soap opera could’ve been avoided if the guy had simply put his entries into the drum well before the scheduled time of the drawing. I think he should’ve tried to make the drum dump a half hour before the scheduled drawing time. It’s possible that any of a number of things could occur that would delay his arrival at the drum (a broken-down elevator or a power failure, a medical situation, a run-in with another guest that turns criminal, what have you, and yes, some employee starting the drawing early). Once you do the drum dump early, you can go back to some machine and play another 20 minutes and then dump any new tickets into the drum. My parents nagged me to do things early, and I resisted their stance until after they both died. Then I began to see things from their viewpoint, and now I do things early like they egged me to do.
Al may be right about the “most important point”. But I assume most all seasoned players grasp that point (don’t wait …) as a “given” (most likely having been bitten by a missed cut off themselves on one or more occasions, given human nature.
So, I’ll disagree with Al and suggest that the most important point to be taken is that there’s an opportunity to be had in every moment, joyous or adverse. One sometimes requires a creative perspective to discern the presence of that opportunity and how best to distill it.
I think the Golden Days of filling out these drawing tickets with your name and possible phone number or whatever have been gone long time ago when the casinos started the electronic drawings where the customer could “activate his drawing tickets” in the virtual drum any time within a given time window to make show each and every guest has the equal chance to place his tickets in the drum.
The old-style drawings had the great advantage that you had the chance to see how many tickets were actually placed in the drum and with the new system nobody knows against how many other tickets he is actually competing.
No matter if the story has actually been taken place as described by Mr Bob Dancer or not , I just question the idea of placing the tickets in the VERY LAST MOMENT of such a contest and wait until the drum is about to be closed. What exactly was the idea behind this tactic? Did that player intend to impress the waiting crowd by showing up with a big paper back full of tickets in order to discourage the people waiting? Or was it more the pure rational and ice cold calculating gambler trying to complete the very last split second of his activity by playing until the absolute last moment and then place the tickets in the drum just before it would be closed?
Imagine every player participating in such a contest would follow exactly this strategy? What’s the point then? If 100 different players would play until 11:50 p.m. in order to rush to the drum before midnight, it would never work out for the promotions team to start the drawing on time. In order to make sure that your tickets (or a majority of them) would be in the drum for sure, it would be recommended to put them in days before and the days following so before the drawing you would only hold perhaps 5 or 10 more tickets ready and if you miss to drop them in the box it wouldn’t be the end of all times.
When I played at the Senior Days events at the Goldcoast I made sure to put my electronic tickets in not all at once but rather in fractions by simply pulling out and re-inserting my players card just moments before the electronic drum would close. Not sure if I actually had 100 per cent of my tickets in the drum on all Wednesday drawings that I participated, but I managed to win actually more than one time some cash. And it was fun.
From Switzerland
Boris
I forgot to mention, that there’s a “bug” in the strategy of that guy who was late to drop his tickets but apparently in time because the drawing started 3 minutes early:
So in order to get tickets for all of your play you probably had to get them from any attendant or slot promotions person, and all your play between let’s say 11:30 p.m. and 11:45 p.m. to give the reader a clear picture would probably not even count because it’s hard to play until 11:45 p.m. and then get another final ticket from the slot person who would have to verify your play and then that ticket would also have to be filled out.
Bottom line: It makes not much sense to play until 11:50 p.m. as you would not have enough time to get drawing tickets for all of your play ready anyways. In my opinion the guy was late and came from some other place or was stuck in the traffic or whatever. If he was playing until 11:50 pm. then that final 20 minutes of play would not have been earned him a drawing ticket anyways as there was no time to get the ticket and fill it out. So the story in my opinion raises too many questions and the behavior of that player is also questionable.
From Switzerland
Boris
Boris, in my comments I observed “tongue-in-cheek” that I might like to engineer such an outcome with every drawing event, given certain advantages that potentially were a by-product.
I don’t think anyone suggests that “Al” intentionally arrived at the last minute to drop his tickets as part of some strategy. He screwed up. (It happens to some of us, occasionally).
I think the casino treated Al quite fairly. By not pressing for a larger settlement, Al preserved his longevity.
Candy,
In this story, how is it rigged in favor of the casino’s preferred customers? Al didn’t get to put his tickets into the drum. That means the value of everyone else’s ticket just went up. Al got compensated by the casino for the issue. This didn’t come out of the drawing prizes, it came directly from the casino.
This particular outcome is advantageous for everyone involved, except Caesar’s cost to put on the promotion.
So, what is rigged in favor of the casino’s preferred players?
If this drawing was for Forum shopping certificates, then holding out for FSP would likely not have worked. With the prizes came with a W2-G but Al got his certificates without an IRS form, then I would agree with Al.