• Home
  • Archived Blogs
    • James Grosjean (AP)
      • About James Grosjean
      • View all posts
    • Bob Dancer (Video Poker)
      • About Bob Dancer
      • View all posts
      • Video Poker Classes
    • Richard Munchkin (AP)
      • About Richard Munchkin
      • View all posts
    • Lou Antonius
      • About Dr. Lou Antonius
      • View all posts
    • Blair Rodman (Poker)
      • About Blair Rodman
      • View all posts
    • FrankB (Sports)
      • About FrankB
      • View all posts
    • Jack Andrews (Sports)
      • About Jack Andrews
      • View all posts
    • Jimmy Jazz (AP)
      • View all posts
    • Anthony Curtis
      • About Anthony Curtis
      • View all posts
    • Guest Bloggers
    • Podcast
  • The Games
    • Bingo Rooms
    • Blackjack
    • Keno Rooms
    • Poker Rooms
    • Video Poker
      • Best Video Poker
      • Bob Dancer Articles
      • Game Room
    • Sports Betting Books
  • Shop
    • Blackjack Strategy
    • Casino Comps & Promotions
    • Casino-Game Strategy Cards
    • Game Protection
    • James Grosjean Strategy Cards (ShopLVA Exclusive)
    • GWAE-Author Products
    • Las Vegas Advisor Membership + Member Rewards
    • Poker-Strategy
    • Sports Betting & Daily Fantasy
    • Tournament Play
    • Video Poker Strategy
  • Arnold Snyder’s Blackjack Forum Online
  • LVA Home
  • Home
  • Advantage Play
  • Advice for Players
  • Advanced Strategy
  • Figuring It Out

Figuring It Out

May 10, 2022 5 Comments Written by Bob Dancer

I received an email to be answered on the podcast. Here it is:

I have a strategy question about 8/5 ACE$ bonus. I’ve been told that you play it the same as you would 8/5 bonus with the following exception: when dealt a full house with 2 or 3 aces where ACE$ is possible, you only hold the aces. Is that true? When dealt 2 pair and one of the pair are aces in the right position do you go for the full house or just hold the aces?

First of all, the correct strategy deviation is to break an aces full hand with THREE aces in the appropriate ACE$ position. Two aces in position are not enough. Today’s blog discusses the way to figure how big an error it would be to break either a full house or two pair with only two aces in the appropriate positions.

For those unfamiliar with the game, the four aces each have one of the four letters, A, C, E, and $, superimposed in yellow. The order of the superimposed letters is either contract bridge order or alphabetical order (which are identical in this particular instance), namely clubs, diamonds, hearts, and spades. 

If you get the four aces in the appropriate positions, with the fifth card in either the first or fifth position, you get paid 4,000 coins rather than the normal 400. It increases the return on the game from 99.17% to slightly more than 99.4%.

For simplicity, I’m only going to consider the ace of clubs and ace of diamonds (which I will call A and C, since those are the yellow letters superimposed on those two cards.) So, a two pair hand, with these two cards in order, might be listed as AC553. The suits of the non-ace cards do not matter. We’re going to be holding the aces, at least, so flushes are out of the question.

With AC553, holding two pair is worth $12.55 to the dollar five-coin player. If you have computer video poker software, this is easy to find out. If we hold AC only, how much is that worth? 

Holding AC, we get 45 quads out of the 16,215 drawing opportunities. The two extra aces must be in one of the following positions, where an x represents any card: E$x, Ex$, $Ex, $xE, xE$, and x$E. Each of these possibilities is equally likely. The first one pays us $4,000 while the other five pay $400.

So we let the computer program figure it out. One sixth of the time we get $4,000 for this hand, and five sixths of the time we get $400. This makes the hand worth, as a weighted average, $1,000. I don’t know about you, but I was surprised that it came out to be an even number like this. But the math is ($4,000 + 5 * $400) / 6 which equates to ($4,000 + $2,000) / 6 or $6,000 / 6 or simply $1,000. 

Plugging in $1,000 for four aces into the computer program, we find that with four aces worth $1,000, two pair is still worth $12.55 and holding the aces by themselves is worth $10.08.

This means the error is worth $2.47 every time it comes up, and it arises about every 136.7 hands. For somebody playing 800 hands per hour, this one error is worth an additional $14.45 per hour. Since we’re talking about playing $4,000 per hour ($5 * 800) through the machine, you’re giving up an extra 0.36%. Better off playing correct 8/5 Bonus strategy with no corrections at all!

The math for a full house with a pair of aces, such as AC777, is basically the same. Holding AC and drawing three cards is now worth $10.15 (because of additional chances for getting a full house throwing away 555 rather than 554), but we’re comparing it to the guaranteed $40 you’ve giving away by not keeping the full house, making the error worth $29.85. 

Dealt full houses happen every 694 hands. One in 13 times, aces are the pair (with some other rank as the 3-of-a-kind part of the full house). This multiplies out to a little over 9,000 hands, or a bit more than every 11 hours when you play 800 hands per hour.

Because this error happens so infrequently, it’s not that expensive over all. Each error is worth $10.15 on average, and if it takes eleven hours to make such a mistake, let’s call it 90 cents an hour. 

Adding them together (because you’re not going to make one of the errors without making the others), you’re giving up about 0.4 percent because of this misconception. In round numbers, you’re giving up about $20 per hour compared to playing regular 8/5 Bonus Poker strategy on the same machine. 

Calling it $20 per hour is approximate. Whether it’s actually $18 or $22 doesn’t matter to me. Even if it were a $2 per hour deficit, I would avoid the play. Especially when the “cure” (which is to play regular 8/5 Bonus strategy on these hands), is so easy. 

More than coming up with exact numbers and strategy, today’s blog is about “How do you figure it out?”  Video poker math isn’t difficult, but some players can’t figure it out without some guidance.

Facebooktwitteryoutubeinstagram
Advanced Strategy, Advantage Play, Advice for Players
8/5 Bonus Poker, bob dacner, video poker
Podcast – legendary bookmaker Scotty Schettler
Podcast – guest Poker pro, Chance Kornuth

5 Comments

  1. Boris Boris
    May 11, 2022    

    I never figured out how this ACE$ game was supposed to be played. These weired extra symboles on the Ace cards looked very complicated and confusiging to me, always. Maybe one of the reasons why I specialized myself on Deuces Wild play…Thank you for sharing these valuable informations with us.

    From Switzerland

    Boris

  2. Rx007 Rx007
    May 12, 2022    

    Thank you for this Bob, this is valuable information. It’s a great game and I just never see it hit with the four aces in order. Would love to have you back in person at the South Point.

  3. Llew Llew
    May 12, 2022    

    Hi, Bob!

    Some time ago, I was playing 8/5 ACE$ Bonus at Hard Rock Casino in Atlantic City. I held the Ace of Spades in the far right position. Three more aces popped up.

    “I hit the aces,” I called to my friend down the row. She gave me a big thumbs up.

    I looked back at the screen and saw that I had 4,000 more credits than I had before the hand! (It was a $.25 machine, so no bells or whistles. 🙂)

    “Holy crap! They’re in order! The aces are in order!!” Big hoorays from my friend.

    Sooo, just curious. What are the odds of hitting the aces in order holding only one?

    Llew

  4. rioski rioski
    May 13, 2022    

    Because the aces need to be in order id say the odds of drawing to it holding just 1 ace would be 1/47 x 1/46 x 1/45 or 97,290 to 1

  5. CTheWorld CTheWorld
    May 18, 2022    

    > This means the error is worth $2.47 every time it comes up, and it arises about every 136.7 hands.

    Is 136 the right number Bob? You were talking here about the case when the two aces are in the right order, but that number sounds like the odds of any two pair with aces. (If you were talking about all ace-high two pairs, the average error would be greater than $2.47)

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Join LVAs Mailing List


Sign me up for:

GWAE Post Categories

  • Advantage Play (653)
    • Advanced Strategy (262)
    • Advice for Players (258)
    • Comps & Promos (75)
    • Game Protection (10)
  • Breaking News (8)
    • News Stories (3)
  • Casino Games (395)
    • Blackjack (31)
    • Craps (11)
    • Other Table Games (13)
    • Poker (33)
    • Slot Machines (5)
    • Video Poker (302)
  • Daily Fantasy Sports (2)
  • Gambling Glossary & Terminology (19)
  • Gambling Online (7)
  • General Thoughts/Opinion (78)
  • GWAE Podcast Episodes (643)
  • Non-Casino Games (3)
  • Reviews: Books, Movies, TV (29)
  • Sports betting (46)
  • Tournaments (2)

Recent Comments

  • coconut on What Would You Do?
  • KOAficionado on Colin Jones (S1 E9): Knockout KISS
  • A McGill on New Blackjack, Same Old Baloney
  • 바카라사이트 on The Cheating Game
  • Bajilive on “You’ve Already Hit the Royal”

Recent Posts

  • Business credit cards for profession gamblers and APs
  • Podcast – Sherriff AP episode 9
  • Spinach!
  • THE IMPORTANCE OF EVALUATING YOUR RESULTS IN BLACKJACK
  • Billy’s Book
Never miss another post

GWAE Bloggers

  • About Andy Uyal
  • About Anthony Curtis
  • About Bill Ordine
  • About Blair Rodman
  • About Bob Dancer
  • About FrankB
  • About Jack Andrews
  • About James Grosjean
  • About Nicholas Colon
  • About Richard Munchkin
  • Bloggers
  • Play Desert Diamond
  • Podcast – attorney Bob Nersesian 12/8/22
  • Podcast – Mickey Crimm 3/23/2023
  • SuperBlog
“Gambling With An Edge” is a unique cyber-hub where some of most-respected minds in professional gambling collectively share their expertise, advanced-strategy tips, insights, and opinions via the GWAE “SuperBlog” and weekly GWAE radio show.
The expertise to be found here spans the full spectrum of casino games, advantage-play techniques, and legal-wagering opportunities in the U.S., with contributors including James Grosjean (AP, table games), Bob Dancer (video poker), Richard Munchkin (AP, author), Blair Rodman (poker), Frank B. (sports betting), and others.

Other LVA Blogs

Frugal Vegas with Jean Scott
LVA Travel
Stiffs & Georges with David McKee
Vegas with an Edge
Powered by LasVegasAdvisor.com copyright 1983-2018 Huntington Press | All Rights Reserved | Privacy Policy