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  • The Use of “fp or worse” in Strategies

The Use of “fp or worse” in Strategies

July 25, 2023 9 Comments Written by Bob Dancer

A few weeks ago, I discussed the taxonomy of 3-card straight flushes. The first comment after it was published was “Dork Alert!” I assumed that I was being called a dork by someone who didn’t like the column. I was such a dork that I didn’t even know the meaning of dork! By the time I figured out what it meant, a couple of other readers defended me by saying that I was certainly not a dork, but the jury was still out about whether or not I was a nerd.

I’m so glad we got that straightened out!

My first thought was that I have never come up with a suitable epitaph for myself. Perhaps I could use, “Definitely not a dork. Possibly a nerd.” What do you think?

My second thought was, “Oh yeah? If you thought that column was nerdy, watch this!” 

I’ve been studying 9-5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus (TBPP). TBPP is a game that’s been around for a long time. It’s the same game as White Hot Aces (WHA), except WHA pays 400 coins for the 5-coin straight flush, and TBPP pays 500 coins for the same hand. These games pay 1,200 coins for four aces (As), 600 coins for four 2s, 3s, and 4s, and 250 coins for the other quads. On dollar versions of the game, the payout for As is sometimes shorted to $1,199 for W-2G purposes.

The hands I wish to discuss contain an A along with a suited jack ten (JT). Sometimes you hold the A. Sometimes you hold the JT. The perfect strategy includes flush and specific straight penalties to the JT. And flush penalties, straight flush penalties, and straight flush kicker penalties to the A. Strangely, the term “straight flush kicker penalty” actually has some meaning in this game, even though it is not a kicker game. 

Let’s start with the penalties to the JT. If there’s a flush penalty to the JT, or an 8 straight penalty, or a 9 straight penalty, we always hold the A by itself — no matter how severely the A is penalized. We do not consider either a king (K) or queen (Q) to be straight penalties to the JT for the purposes of this line in the strategy because that would turn the hand into a higher-ranking 4-card inside straight hand. Neither do we include straight flush penalties to the JT because any of them (a suited 7, 8 , or 9) would create a 3-card straight flush combination that is much higher in value than a solitary A.

  1. A♠ J♥ T♥ 8♠ 3♠ — Hold A
  2. A♠ J♥ T♥ 9♠ 3♠ — Hold A
  3. A♠ J♥ T♥ 4♠ 3♥ — Hold A
  4. A♠ J♥ T♥ 5♠ Q♦ — Hold AQJT
  5. A♠ J♥ T♥ 2♠ 7♥ — Hold JT7

Now let’s look at the JT with a 7 straight penalty. We hold the A by itself unless there are two other cards in the hand suited with the A. Given that there are only five cards in the hand, and we already know we have an A, J, and T, if there is a 7 penalty and there must be two cards suited with the A, the 7 itself must be one of those two cards. The fifth card could be a flush penalty (a suited 6), a straight flush penalty (a suited 5), or a straight flush kicker penalty (a suited 2, 3, or 4.) The last two examples below show the 7 penalty with only one penalty suited with the A, and that penalty is as severe as it can be. In example i, there is one straight flush kicker penalty, and in example j there’s a flush penalty and a kicker penalty.

  1. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 6♥ — Hold JT
  2. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 5♥ — Hold JT
  3. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 3♥ — Hold JT
  4. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♦ 4♥ — Hold A
  5. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 2♠ — Hold A

The only situation we’ve not covered so far is when the JT has no flush penalty, straight flush penalty, and no straight penalty. It stands to reason that we hold the JT more often in this case. And we do, unless there are one or more cards in the hand suited with the A. Without the A being penalized with some kind of flush card, even with two of the most severe kicker penalties, we hold the A by itself.

  1. A♦ J♠ T♠ 5♦ 6♣ — Hold JT
  2. A♦ J♠ T♠ 4♦ 6♣ — Hold JT
  3. A♦ J♠ T♠ 6♦ 5♣ — Hold JT
  4. A♦ J♠ T♠ 6♦ 5♣ — Hold JT
  5. A♦ J♠ T♠ 2♥ 3♣ — Hold A

Although I didn’t show examples, it should stand to reason that if one flush penalty to the A is sufficient to have you hold the JT, two such flush penalties should make JT > A by an even wider margin.   

You might be wondering why I’m calling a 2, 3, or 4 a kicker penalty or a straight flush kicker penalty (depending on whether or not it is suited with the A), even though there are no kickers in this game. Liam W. Daily and I devised the symbols “kp” and “sfkp” to describe these cards in our Double Double Bonus strategy card and Winner’s Guide. The reason I use the same term here is that the presence of the exact same cards (namely a 2, 3, and 4) lower the value of holding the A by itself. How? Each one of those cards dealt and not held eliminates the possibility of a 600-coin quad jackpot. If one of these “kickers” is suited with the A, it also eliminates the possibility of a 500-coin straight flush jackpot.

So far, I’ve given you, in words, the exact strategy for these hands. On my personal strategy card, published here for the first time, I use a more compact notation. Here is what I use:

A (< JT with neither sp nor fp when fp or worse) 

    (< JT with {7p and no fp} when two fp or worse)

As always in my notation, the term “with” refers to what is inside the parentheses (in this case, the JT) and the term “when” refers to what is outside the parentheses (in this case, the A). The letter “i” in the word “with” is a mnemonic device for the start of the “internal” — specifically internal to the parentheses. The letter “e” in the word “when” is a mnemonic device for the start of “external.”

The term “fp or worse” means fp or sfp or sfkp.

Notice the strategy doesn’t refer to either an 8p or 9p, and my explanation here starts from there. Those are two of the three possible straight penalties. If I mentioned them specifically, I would have had to say ({8p or 9p} and/or fp). While I considered that, I found that more confusing than the way I wrote it.

Please note that this is a game most of my readers don’t have access to for stakes they want to play and goes into greater detail than most of my readers want to go into. I wrote it because now if someone posts “Nerd Alert,” I feel like I have earned it! Whether they intended it as a compliment or not!

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9 Comments

  1. Liz Liz
    July 25, 2023    

    Now I can’t get Weird Al Yankovic’s White and Nerdy out of my head.

  2. Rusty Rusty
    July 25, 2023    

    I loved both blogs.
    What would a fan be labeled?

  3. Denis McIntosh Denis McIntosh
    July 25, 2023    

    Are there any of those “nerdy things” that apply to NSUD?

  4. mark mark
    July 26, 2023    

    exactly how much of an impact on the total return of this game does this particular rule have?

  5. Paul G. Paul G.
    July 27, 2023    

    One of my favorite things to do is reading an article like this one on TB+. A thinking man’s article. I read them over ten years ago and I still love reading them now. Don’t ever change this “nerdy” part of you, Bob. I love it.

  6. PK PK
    July 28, 2023    

    Well that last post was nerdy.
    Here hold my wine cooler.
    It almost seems like too complex of a strategy for the most part.
    What percentages of hands are going to have an Ace with Jack ten suited in it?
    That the penalty cards aren’t obvious on the play.
    I see if you have Broadway cards you would just hold the gut shot but that suited steel wheel penalty card for the ace that’s kind of weird.

  7. nudge51 nudge51
    July 28, 2023    

    I have commented recently that we all know that casino play is a game of numbers for players and casino owners. Since the author of this piece did not give any numbers, I thought that I would so that anyone interested in this game could see specifics. Here are hands 1 through 5.
    1. A♠ J♥ T♥ 8♠ 3♠ — Hold A
    2. A♠ J♥ T♥ 9♠ 3♠ — Hold A
    3. A♠ J♥ T♥ 4♠ 3♥ — Hold A
    4. A♠ J♥ T♥ 5♠ Q♦ — Hold AQJT
    5. A♠ J♥ T♥ 2♠ 7♥ — Hold JT7

    Hold Value Differences For Listed Hands Above Assuming $1 Denomination.
    1. A♠ = $2.2831 J♥ T♥ = $2.2769 Difference = .0062 cents If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be 62 cents.
    2. A♠ = $2.2831 J♥ T♥ =2.2572 Difference = .0256 cents If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be $2.56.
    3. A♠ = $2.2926 J♥ T♥ = $2.2470 Difference = .0456 cents. If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be $4.56.
    4. AQJT = $2.6596 A♠ = $2.2399 Difference = .4197 cents If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be $41.97.
    Here is the second set of hands.
    6. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 6♥ — Hold JT
    7. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 5♥ — Hold JT
    8. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 3♥ — Hold JT
    9. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♦ 4♥ — Hold A
    10. A♥ J♣ T♣ 7♥ 2♠ — Hold A

    Hold Value Differences For Listed Hands Above Assuming $1 Denomination.
    6. J♣ T♣ = $2.2966 A♥ = $2.2848 Difference = .0018 cents. If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be 18 cents.
    7. J♣ T♣ = $2.2966 A♥ = $2.2851 Difference = .0115. If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be $1.15.
    8. J♣ T♣ = $2.2966 A♥ = $2.2831 Difference = .0135 cents. If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be $1.35.
    9. A♥ =$2.2999 J♣ T♣ = $2.2966 Difference = .0033 cents. If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be 33 cents.
    10. A♥ = $2.3025 ♣ T♣ = $2.2966 Difference = .0059 cents. . If you were to make this error 100 times, the cost would be 59 cents.

    Many of you may be bored by this point, so I will ship the last 5 hold selections. I will leave it up to the readers to determine whether or not these potential errors would be significant to anyone playing this game.

  8. Boris Radtke Boris Radtke
    July 28, 2023    

    nudge 51, don’t you think that luck within a 5000 hands session is way more important that this penny-picking stuff? If you are a genius and able to memorize all these situations within split seconds while playing videopoker in turbo mode, then it’s great. I think, however, playing the solid and importand hands the way you’re supposed to is the key and then combining this with the good prmotions this should do the job. Anything else is fine tuning on the highest level, which for guys like me are something not worth bothering about are.

  9. Jimmy Jazz Jimmy Jazz
    August 11, 2023    

    Boris ,

    Luck doesn’t factor into whether or not you make a particular play. Your point about whether it is worth it to learn a play like this ( time invested vs gain) is valid. The luck aspect isn’t.

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