I wrote the following article (minus the epilogue which I added later) and then passed it by South Point management for a fact check. As a sponsor of my podcast and the place where I teach my free classes, I have a special relationship with that casino, and I don’t want to screw it up by getting things wrong.
Turns out, I did get a rule wrong. At the end of what I originally wrote, I’ll explain how that rule change affected my behavior.
For those of you who play at the South Point casino, a rare double-dip opportunity presented itself recently. I wrote about the same situation a few years ago, hoping to teach my readers how to think like a winning player. Now the opportunity happened again. Did you notice it this time?
In April, the monthly promotion was two separate casino-wide progressives going on at all times. One from $10,000 to $25,000, where non-winners received $25 in free play when it went off, and the second one between $1,000 and $2,500. Each jackpot started again immediately after it was hit. Beginning 12:01 a.m. May 1 (essentially midnight April 30), each jackpot would keep going until it was hit, and then it would not start again.
In May, the monthly promotion is half-price Walmart or Chevron gift cards. Play and redeem $8,334 (usually enough to earn $25 in cash or free play) and receive one $50 gift card instead, limit 10 per person.
That means if you played starting at midnight April 30, you were working on both promotions at once. You would probably only get an extra $25 because somebody else would hit the big jackpot. But maybe . . .
It’s easy to evaluate how much the half-price gift card promotion is worth. Assuming you consider the cards as having the same value as cash, the promotion is worth 0.30%. Another way to say this is for the first $83,340 in coin-in for the month, you’re getting double points — namely 0.60% rather than the usual 0.30%.
It was not so easy evaluating the April promotion. It depended on how many players were playing and also what denomination you were playing. If a nickel player and a dollar player had equal chances to hit the jackpot (which I think is the case), in terms of dollars-per-hour, the returns were the same. In terms of percentage win, playing for nickels gives you 20 times as big of an edge as playing for dollars does (assuming the same pay schedules on the machine, which is not usually the case.) Also, if both progressives were active, it had to be worth more than if only one was active.
So, I can’t tell you how much that promotion is worth, but I can tell you it’s worth “something positive.” Playing for the gift cards, plus “something positive” has to be a higher-paying alternative than playing for the gift cards without this extra.
This doesn’t mean you had to be there at 12:01 a.m. on May 1. There are lots of reasons why you wouldn’t want to be. One of my regular readers lives in Switzerland. He’s not flying over for this double dipping. You might have a better alternative (like, perhaps, you were on a progressive with a higher EV than any game at the South Point even while including the two promotions.) You could be someone who doesn’t function well after midnight. Whatever.
Consciously choosing to neglect this opportunity this time can be appropriate for any number of reasons. Neglecting to notice that this double-dipping was possible (assuming you’re in Las Vegas and will be playing for the gift cards anyway) is not a good sign, assuming your goal is to make money playing video poker.
A winner at video poker constantly looks for double- and triple-dipping opportunities. That’s one thing that separates the winners from the non-winners at this game. It’s a mindset. (Or maybe it’s a disease!)
I strongly believe that the players who notice this (and similar types of things at other casinos) have a better win rate than those who don’t. This has nothing to do with luck. This has everything to do with keeping your eye on the prize.
So, did you notice?
When I passed this by the South Point management, I learned about a rule that I didn’t know. If either jackpot hit on the last day, namely April 30, it wouldn’t reset. Since the smaller jackpot hit about three times a day, it was almost certain that it would hit on April 30 and not still be active by midnight.
The larger jackpot, however, hit every two or three days on average. It could be active at midnight April 30. It may not be. The only way to know was to go in and find out.
I decided that I would go in. I would manage my sleep well enough so that I could play many hours, whether both promotions were active or just one. Since I choose to play at least $83,340 anyway, it doesn’t much matter when I play it. So, it wouldn’t be a total waste if the April jackpot was not active. It would be better, of course, if it was active.
It’s important to read the rules to promotions. This was a case where I hadn’t read the rules recently because it was a regular promotion at the South Point and I assumed the rules hadn’t changed since the last time I checked them.
And you know what they say about “assume.”
I got to the South Point at slightly before midnight. At the Silverado Bar, which is immediately inside the door from the parking garage, I saw that the smaller jackpot was surprisingly still active at $2,450 and the bigger one was at $19,500. By the time I got to my machine, the smaller one had already been hit, but the larger one was still active.
I played. The larger one went off about noon, while I had been there a full 12 hours. I got my $25 bonus. But it could have been higher.
I’ll probably save some play to be done on May 31, when they will have a Hot Seat promotion. Every three minutes between 8 a.m. and midnight, some player will receive $100 in free play. I may or may not get $100. But hey! Looking to capture every bit of EV out of a promotion is part of the DNA of being a winning player.

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“Every three minutes between 8 a.m. and midnight, some player will receive $100 in free play.”
3400 winners in one day? That’s a lot,
Isn’t it?
340, my bad
Sounds like a great opportunity. My personal guess is that because there are so many machines inside the Southpoint and during the late afternoon and early evening hours the casino is at perhaps 50-70 per cent capacity on the slots they generate so much hold for the house that the promo is a real golden goose. I noticed that the South Point has had this progressive jackpot game for many years so obviously it’s quite popular. I would definetely go and play it as well as I like it when the Southpoint has this kiosk game that you can activate to get additional x2p or other goodies once you did your daily play.
It makes only little sense for somebody driving to the Southpoint from far away in the valley just to find out that neither the bigger nor the smaller mystery jackpot has been hit and the person would not play and drive back home or go elsewhere. I think in this case a gambling afficondo will sit down on a machine anyways and give it a try. That’s exactly what the casino expects. And it would probably work.
Where I live there are some casinos offering interesting slot jackpots that at times are also great opportunities. I doubt that many players have noticed that because hitting one of those jackpots remains a tough thing but the rewards can be great.
From Switzerland
Boris
Bob, thank you for another interesting article. As I considered it there seems to be something that does not add up. All of these 3 things can not be true at the same time: 1) the small jackpot hits about 3 times a day. 2) on the last day the small jackpot will not reset. 3) just before midnight on the last day the small jackpot was active. I believe you saw the small jackpot active that night so it is one of the other two. Either the frequency of the small jackpot hitting has been over estimated or the system failed to shut it down when it hit earlier that day (April 30). Either way it would not impact your strategy but I wonder did you notice this? Or any other readers notice this? Gary Grund
I believe all three are true. Hitting three times a day is an average. What probably happened is it hit just before April 30 began (say 11:40 p.m. April 29) and there was lighter play than average on the 30th. Plus, since it went off at $2,450 or so, it lasted about as long as possible.
The 3x a day average includes lots of times when it goes off at $1,100 or so. If two or more of those go back to back, in an individual day it could go off 5 or 6 times. On April 30, it went slightly more than 24 hours.
video poker players know about these cycles. Royals come about every 40,000 hands per average, but we’ve all heard of players hitting 2 or more in a short period of time, and all heard of players going many, many hands more than 40,000 between royals.
South Point is an excellent place to play VP.
Doesn’t seem fitting that a real gambler would worry about getting a half-priced gas card?
That’s the difference between a gambler and a advantage player. One wants the action and the other wants an edge.
Ok Bob good point, things may have happened as you suggest. The cycle for the small jackpot does have a significant difference from royal cycles. It must hit by 2500 and then reset. As we know all too well there is no must hit by 40,000 hands for royals. I have played at the southpoint during this promo and it seemed to me that it was common for the small jackpot to near 2500 and then hit at least once a day. And my day was 6am to 8pm, only 14 hours. I can not be sure of this as I had no reason to track or keep records of the small jackpot. So again it could have happened as you suggest. Perhaps one of your southpoint connections has access to actual records of when the small jackpot was paid on April 30. In any case I enjoy the discussion ! Gary
Actually 320
Great post Bob. I’ve stayed at South Point the last 3 times I’ve been to Las Vegas. There is always a good deal to be had there!
I love your quote: “Looking to capture every bit of EV out of a promotion is part of the DNA of being a winning player.”
I might have to add it to the Gambling Quotes on my site.
“Every three minutes between 8 a.m. and midnight, some player will receive $100 in free play. I may or may not get $100.“
Dancer wrote: “ Actually 320” (prizes to be awarded)
If the promotion awards both the 8 am & midnight prizes, it’s 321 prizes. If it awards neither the 8 am nor midnight prizes, then it’s 319. Dancer’s answer of 320 doesn’t make sense TO ME because it IMPLIES either the 8 am is awarded but not at midnight or they don’t award the 8 am but award the midnight prize.
The 321 answer is based on number of “full hours” and prizes per full hour.
8:00:01 am to 9 am is one full hour and the last full hour is 11:00:01 pm to midnight. There are 16 full hours from 8:01 am to midnight.
There are 20 prizes per full hour:
:03, :06, :09, :12, & :15 or 5 prizes for the first 15 minutes of the full hour.
:18; :21; :24; :27, & :30 or 5 prizes for the second 15 minutes of the full hour.
So it’s easy to see 20 prizes per full hour.
Therefore 16 (full hours) times 20 (prizes per full hour) is 320 or the number that Dancer got.
But Dancer never addressed the prize being awarded at 8:00 am, which is the 321st prize.
Dancer is a an entertaining writer, but his attention to details needs work.
“Dancer is a an entertaining writer, but his attention to details needs work.”
The promotion is advertised as a “$32,000 Hot Seat Promotion.”
Since each prize is $100 in free play, that implies 320 winners, to me at least.
I remember hitting the Royals 2x within 30 minutes of play. It happened at Sam’s Town on a very old Double Deuces machine on the 2nd floor. I had just arrived from my trip and Sam’s Town was my first hotel of destination. I was so happy hitting it once on my first day during the vacation so I went down to the deli at the sports book to buy me a late night meal. On my way back I decided to throw in another 100 and play on when I got another Royal Flush on that same machine. Another remarkable score was at Tuscany where I used to play the 4-6-9 dd game progressive at the main entrance and because of graphics, speed and button condition I always used to play the 2nd machine of the right with the main entrance in my back. I noticed that for about 3 or 4 years I always managed to hit a Royal Flush during the first day of my play on that very machine, with the most bizarre Royal to come in by just holding the Ace on 5th position . Vessana, my favorite cocktail waitress who hopefully is still with the Tuscany , she can confirm that. It was amazing. And I had another interesting situation at a Deuces Wild machine at the El Cortez. It was Double Deuces game, in fact, the “last man standing” the Downtown Deuces game. I played it before they reduced the points distributor. I got so lucky one night on that machine to hit 3x 4 deuces for 500 dollars each (double deuces) within perhaps 90 minutes of play. And the next day I hit another quick set of deuces early in the morning. Tony, the slot attendant, commented my luck by “it’s always nice hitting 4 deuces in the morning”. That was the most extreme luck that I had , but of course I hit way more Royals in the past 10 years, so a friend of mine calculated that I have been way over-royal-ed over the past 10 years. Perhaps that’s why I love Videopoker so badly 🙂
From Switzerland
Boris
I like the Southpoint a lot, too. The cocktail waitresses are wearing extremely nice outfits, and my standard drink there is Smirnoff Ice when I play videopoker. It’s one of the rare places where I play Bonus Deuces Progressive. Sometimes the meter gets as high as 3000 for quarter play and that’s usually great for me to play, even though they would tax me 30 per cent non refundable.
From Switzerland
Boris
Great read.