I have discussed abandoned credits and found TITOs on the GWAE podcast in the past. Typically, if I find a few credits on a machine, I will cash out the ticket. If I find a significant amount on a machine, I will cash out the ticket and wait around for 15 minutes to see if anyone comes back to claim it. More than a few times, the person comes back, starts looking around the machine and I ask them if everything is alright. If they tell me that they left credits in the machine and can at least approximate the value, I give them their ticket. If after a reasonable time, no one comes looking for it, I cash it.
I found a ticket on 7/5/19 at a local casino. This ticket was actually hanging out of the machine. The timestamp on the ticket showed that it has been cashed out 10 minutes before I saw it. I picked it up and the amount was $75.97. Now, this isn’t a fortune but is more than a few nickels. I saw a woman who I thought may have been playing that machine and asked her. She said she wasn’t playing that machine. Another person came by looking at that machine and I asked him if he needed any help. He said no, he was just looking at the machine.
I had a play at the machine next to this one and stayed in the area for about an hour. No one came back to claim the ticket. At that point, I had an idea. I want to give the person who lost the ticket an opportunity to claim it but I have very little faith that if I turn it over to either a slot tech or security that they will make much effort to find the owner. Then the ticket either goes to the casino coffers or the state coffers.
So, I decided to hold on to the ticket for a while. So, if the person came back later that day or the next day, they could contact s slot supervisor, identify the machine and the amount of the voucher, see it wasn’t cashed, cancel the voucher I found and issue a new voucher to the owner. If no one ever comes back, I just cash the ticket on my next trip to that casino.
To me, this strikes a pretty good balance. The person who lost or forgot the ticket has ample time to redeem it. The state or the casino doesn’t pocket the unclaimed ticket. The ticket is secured from the large population of people that would pocket the ticket and not think twice about it. This method won’t work for a casino I rarely frequent or for an out of state casino if I am leaving that day. In those cases, I will wait around for the 15 minutes or so to see if someone claims the ticket.
Not a perfect solution but it’s the best one I have at the moment. I ended up cashing the ticket on 7/12/19, with no issues. Civil comments are welcomed.
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“if the person came back later that day or the next day, they could contact s slot supervisor, identify the machine and the amount of the voucher, see it wasn’t cashed, cancel the voucher I found and issue a new voucher to the owner.”
I didn’t know that was possible. I thought a ticket was as good as cash. The casino can really cancel it if someone can describe it like you’ve suggested? Do they have to describe the ticket in exact and correct detail or can they just be in the ballpark?
I would (and have) turned on the service light of that machine, wait for an attendant, have them determine now to handle it. I wouldn’t touch the ticket. Should the player return, which usually happens within a minute, and I recognize that person as the one who was playing the machine, no problem and I would probably turn the service light off. If I didn’t recognize the person who pulled the ticket I would leave the light on and explain what happened to the attendant.
These days the machines keep beeping pretty loudly until the ticket is removed. The beeping might ‘invite’ a wrong person to pull that ticket, but I still would not pull it myself. I’d wait for an attendant and tell what happened..
Once I even forgot to cash out, about $90 worth. Within a minute when I remembered, I ran back to the machine. Darn…the ticket had been cashed out. Oh, well. Figured I was a $90 loser for being stupid. Then a nice casino attendant walked up, asked “Are you looking for something?:” Yes. She had already cashed it, turned it into someone, then radioed someone I was back for the ticket. The whole thing took maybe 2-3 minutes. Did they check surveillance? I don’t know, but they seemed certain I was the rightful owner, I was impressed.
Cashing a found ticket is clearly illegal, as has been discussed in the LVA QOD multiple times. In your article you do not mention that what you are doing is illegal, which is disappointing. However, it is interesting to read how you rationalize your illegal action as somehow ethically OK.
In Pennsylvania, what you did could have got you arrested. Even if no one claims the voucher, in the eyes of PA law you took money that belonged to someone else.
In Pennsylvania, the charge is called “theft of mislaid property”. In PA if the person goes to security and they find the ticket has been cashed, the state police become involved. A few people have been arrested at PA casinos for it since PA casinos opened. They arrested a lady last year in my hometown who found a wallet in the parking lot of a drugstore and didn’t turn it in. The police pulled the video tape and the store staff knew her from her picking up prescriptions.
Definitely against the law in many jurisdictions. Some jurisdictions have run stings in the past and left TITO tickets in machines and arrested those that took them.
You have two potential issues with taking the ticket: one, laws that say the ticket belongs to the person who was playing the machine, and two, “laws” (de facto practice in jurisdictions where the casinos ARE the law, such as Nevada) that say the ticket belongs to the casino. Like that woman was dragged off to jail for picking up a nickel and putting it in her pocket, you’ll lose any argument that comes up.
A couple of months ago, I sat down at an empty slot chair to answer a text that had come in on my phone. I engaged in an animated virtual conversation with the friend who had sent it, and after about fifteen minutes, I glanced at the machine’s screen and saw that there was $27 worth of credits. I cashed them out and scurried over to a cash-out kiosk, and then left immediately. I felt apprehensive that I might have been observed by security, and somewhat irrationally, I felt a sense of guilt. In retrospect, I think the best thing to do in such situations is leave the damn thing alone. As the amount of the ticket/credits rises, you have more incentive to grab it but the potential offense increases in magnitude. It’s just not worth the risk–though I might think differently if I needed the money to pay the rent or something (but in that case, why would I be in a casino?).
“Like that woman was dragged off to jail for picking up a nickel and putting it in her pocket, you’ll lose any argument that comes up.”
This was in Michigan, not Nevada, and she won her case against MotorCity Casino as the MI Supreme court literally said abandon money belongs to the finder.
Where that happened and the eventual outcome isn’t germane to the point I was making. If you take “found” money, you run the risk of getting in trouble, whether you happen to be in the right legally or not. Inside a casino, the casino is boss. Don’t you think if that woman could go back in time, she would NOT pick up the nickel, even though she eventually won the right to keep it? It’s a CASINO. You run the risk of being hassled whether you’re in the right or not; see: card counting.
I think DEFINITELY, if you’re an AP and you have a lucrative recurring play going at a given casino, trying to grab and redeem an abandoned TITO ticket would be especially foolish.
We were playing at Wynn during one of trips and my husband left a small ticket in a machine when we left to walk over to Encore. We had been at Encore for about 10 minutes playing and a person came up to my husband and handed him a ticket and told him he left in in a machine at Wynn. It was kind of creepy. Come to find out, he was a slot host and they tracked my husband by his players card. So, don’t assume you can get away with much in a casino. They are watching from all sides.
Yes, they can cancel a TITO. For the situation I described, if the person came back and told the slot tech or slot supervisor that they left a ticket in the machine and gave the approximate amount, I believe the casino would cancel the original TITO and issue a new one. For the casino, it doesn’t cost them anything and creates goodwill with the customer.
I realize certain states ( Colorado comes to mind) have rather punitive views on abandoned tickets. In those states, I would handle things differently. In Michigan, I haven’t heard of anyone being arrested since the famous case at Motor City about 15 years ago. I think the Michigan casinos would be very reluctant to arrest someone for this. Now, they have booted out silver miners ( for between a day and a week) but those are people whose sole casino activity is looking for vouchers. I play in these casinos so I very much doubt anything would happen.
Kevin, everyone talks about the law that says the abandoned ticket belongs to a casino or belongs to the person who played it but I have never seen the actual law quoted. I realize there may be state laws and federal laws but I have never seen anyone cite an actual statute covering this. I did a google search and could not find any specific law that covers this situation.
Leaving the ticket alone is certainly an option. I prefer my new method for several reasons: 1) There is a chance that the original owner will be reunited with his ticket. 2) If no one claims it, I get the cash instead of the state or the casino.
As previously mentioned, if I really thought the casino would make a good effort to find the owner and that if the owner isn’t found, the money goes to a good cause, I would turn in the ticket. Based on what I have experienced, I don’t the casino will make much of an effort to find the owner.
LC Larry, if you look up the Michigan case, the woman won damages not for picking up the nickel, but for how she was treated. If Motor City had arrested her and treated her properly, there would not have been a lawsuit.
So, the damages in that case were for mistreatment, not for picking up the nickel token.
Kevin, you are giving way too power to the casino. Yes, they own the business but they still have to follow the law. 30 years ago, it was a different story. Now, casinos are starting to realize that they can’t do whatever they want without the risk of a lawsuit.
I agree that if I had a very good play at a particular casino, I might do things differently. At the local casinos, if I were barred, no big deal. I would also tread differently at an Indian casino.
In Nevada and Michigan ( where I do the bulk of my play), I’ll pick up a TITO and try and find the owner. If I can’t find the owner, after a day or a week ( depending on the location and travel plans) I will cash that ticket.
Right, but the casino was trying to charge her with theft in which they’d absolutely have the right to detain and question her. The court ruled otherwise and said it wasn’t theft stating this:
“This case, as we all know, involves a token, a five cent token. The plaintiff
as the finder of a lost or abandoned token, has superior title to that token than
does the Motor City Casino. In determining whether the token was lost or
abandoned, you are to use your common sense and consider whether there
was any other rational circumstance for that token to be in that tray. The
only person who has a superior right to that token other than the plaintiff, is
the person who lost it or the person who abandoned it.”
My point to Kevin was that the casinos in Michigan (except maybe the Indian dumps) have no right to claim as theirs any abandoned tokens, tickets, or credits. Only players do.
You say you play in Michigan casinos? Hang around MGM and you’ll see security guards “stealing” left over credits from the machines.
Mark,
How is finding an abandoned ticket clearly illegal? That is a huge supposition. I haven’t found anything to indicate that cashing in an abandoned ticket in Michigan or Nevada, is clearly illegal. If you are disappointed that I don’t say things that I don’t believe, you will be clearly disappointed with what I write.
Again, show me something that says what I did was illegal. I haven’t seen anything to back up your claim. And I’m not rationalizing. I am offering a different solution to an issue. My method at least gives the person who left the ticket the opportunity to claim it. Again, I haven’t seen any evidence to show that the casino will make the same effort. And I have seen, in at least one case, where the casino made zero effort to find the person who left a ticket behind.
LC Larry,
What you say is true but the settlement was for mistreatment, not for illegal arrest and detainment. If they had arrested and detained her properly, there would have been no lawsuit. So, what I was trying to make clear is that the judgement was not for Motor City illegally arresting her, it was for how they treated her once they arrested her.
I’ll have to look up that case again and review it.
And yes, I have seen security guards pick up vouchers all the time. I don’t know if they keep them or turn them in. In the high roller room at Motor City many, many years ago, the $5 machines had the coin return ( this is the coin dropper days) was below the bartop and often times, there would be a token or two in there. The bar maid would come around and pick them up and give them to a patron because she could not keep them. I would usually just leave it for her as a tip, which was okay but she could not keep it for risk of being reprimanded.
Jimmy, I’m not “giving” any power to the casinos. They already have it. In Nevada, the casinos ARE the law and the government. In other states, their power varies. I found out just how much of a joke the New Jersey Gaming Commission is several years ago, but I assume that some states actually do have decent oversight.
You have to realize, though, that even if legal remedies may exist for what the casino does to you, you still have to endure that unfair treatment for the time being, suffer through whatever law enforcement may be involved, track down, hire, and pay for a lawyer, and then go to court. And you are by no means assured of winning! That’s power, all right. Casinos can hurt you immediately. If you’re willing to spend months or years and tens of thousands of dollars, you MIGHT be able to hurt them back.
That’s why I feel it’s better not to poke the bear, and leave that ticket in the machine.
Nearly every state has regulations for lost and found. Nevada has:
NRS 205.0832 Actions which constitute theft.
1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, a person commits theft if, without lawful authority, the person knowingly: (subsection 2 is just a clause for vehicle repair people…)
(d) Comes into control of lost, mislaid or misdelivered property of another person under circumstances providing means of inquiry as to the true owner and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner.
This being said: I think it is admirable that you have a somewhat “robin hood”-esqe thought process about it, which most people don’t have. I worked in Surveillance for over a decade, and lost and found tickets were a big portion of the daily calls for reviews. The casino is in fact required to make an effort to find the owner, just the same as you are. The same law applies to a business as it does an individual.
This all being said again: just dont touch things that arent yours. “keep your hands to yourself” has no greater meaning than a place where people piss and puke all over everything. actually, come to think of it, this is why i dont gamble… i have seen too many things get bodily fluids on them XD
I am not sure if this applies to all properties, but at mine, if someone did not have a players card in the machine, and could only approximately state the amount, they would not be able to claim the ticket without a Surveillance review (for things over $20). This is because it would only take a few seconds for someone to see an approx. amount and claim someone else’s ticket, which then causes the actual owner to come back and claim the ticket that was paid to the false claimer. The casino is then liable for the amount because they gave it to the wrong person without actually verifying ownership… I have seen this happen dozens of times and each time I do the face-palm at the fact that a one minute phone call and a two minute Surveillance review and response could have saved hundreds of dollars and irate guests, who then tell their friends, costing untold more money…
Some of the other agents would hate these types of calls, but I always loved getting old forgetful’s money back, even with no reward… even when the slot or security person got the tip… don’t care, i just like seeing the owner happy they got their stuff back. 🙂
Kevin, the same argument applies to any legal skirmish. If a roofing company does shoddy work on my house and won’t correct it, I have to hire a lawyer, sue them, go to court and if I win, still have to battle with collecting my award.
If you think the casinos are the law and government, you should never set foot in a casino again. I don’t agree at all with that assessment.
You are still empowering casinos way more than they deserve to be empowered. So, whatever happens in a casino, you just let go? Wow. I’m sure every casino will welcome you at their properties.
The casinos are the law in NEVADA. Elsewhere, not so much. And because I’ve perceived that sad reality, I no longer risk large amounts there, or put myself in any position where if I got screwed over, I couldn’t just walk away without minding too much. So yeah, I do “just let go” because I no longer put anything in their hands that’s worth taking.
That wasn’t always the case. I have been screwed out of amounts over $1000 I was owed four different times by Nevada casinos, and in all four cases, I sought legal recourse. I was unsuccessful all four times, and in only one instance was my case even given the time of day. I was going hat in hand to the boss in a company town.
The only problem with your roofing contractor analogy is that when you seek legal recourse for a shoddy roof repair, the judge, jury, and legislators who made the laws and the officials who enforce them—aren’t all roofing contractors or their relatives. You aren’t challenging the system. You try to fight a casino in court, it’s like suing the Gestapo because they beat you up in the street. A bit of an extreme analogy and probably unfair to the Gestapo, but you get my point.
Bottom line: NEVER, NEVER, EVER remove a ticket from the TITO slot of a casino machine you haven’t inserted money to play on. Any casino, any state. If the beeping is driving you nuts, put on your (or that machine’s) service light, wait for the attendant, let them handle it, it is their job and not yours to figure out who the owner is. Don’t even think of cashing it, ever.
Find a ticket on the floor? Turn it into the cage, tell them you found it and it isn’t yours;
Don’t borrow trouble.
Kevin,
Your version of Las Vegas is from 40 years ago. There have been hundreds of successful lawsuits against casinos. So I am sure the local government takes a casino leaning in any dispute, saying the casinos are the ruling government is a huge over step. Uphill battle, yes. Lost cause, no.
Candy,
That is certainly one approach. If I trusted the casino personnel to do the right thing with that ticket, I would leave that ticket alone. Of the tickets I have found for more than a few dollars, about 5 out of 7 have been returned to the owner by me. I highly doubt that if I turned in those 7 tickets, the casinos would have found that many of the owners. Avoiding a problem isn’t the same as solving a problem.
I get offers from Circus Circus all the time. I like the fact that I can stay there and walk to my car within a couple of minutes. About a month ago I was there as an invited guest and found a ticket on the ground worth $120. I picked it up and walked up to the first security guard I saw and gave it to him and explained the circumstances of finding it. Part of my reasoning was I didn’t want to screw up a good situation. If the same thing happened at a casino that I didn’t have a players card at I can’t say for sure what I would have done.
Always the best thing is to turn found ticket into the cashier cage. They can determine exactly where it came from, when, who was playing if person was using a card. But good that you at least turned it in. If the guard pockets it, not your fault.
In Las Vegas in May of this year, a woman walked away and left $680 in the machine.
Another woman (not me) cashed the ticket out and left it out next to her. Three hours later, the owner of the money had not returned. Woman #2 took the ticket to the cashier to turn it in. She believed that if security video showed the pocketing of the ticket, there could be repercussions. I think it’s the proper action morally.
Why is turning in a found TITO always the best thing? That’s a pretty broad statement. Again, if I were confident that the casinos would try and find the rightful owner, I’d be more inclined to turn in a ticket. My casino experience is that most casinos are more concerned with their profits than with their customers. Expecting them to do extra work to cost themselves some money is optimistic. You can argue the goodwill point of reuniting a player with their abandoned cash, but I’m not convinced that casinos in general work very hard to return the money to the player.
Here’s the part we never hear about. Did the casino try and find the rightful owner? If the casino makes a legitimate effort to find the owner, I’m more likely to turn in a ticket. In Nevada, An article in the Las Vegas Sun in 2016 said that there was $35,000,000 in unclaimed vouchers in 2011 – 2015. 25% goes to the casino and 75% to the Nevada general fund.
I’d bet my method returns more tickets to the original owner than the casino do.
Why should money from unclaimed vouchers NOT go to the casino and the Nevada general fund? They make casinos happen, pay salaries, healthcare for staff, entertainment for you and me. They build and maintain the infrastructures of life in general and gambling in particular.
I’ll say it…it is a ludicrous theory that someone who purposely removes a ticket from a machine, or picks one off the floor truly intends to “look for” the owner for a few days? What, stand in the casino waving the ticket like a town crier? Ask every person who walks by “lost a ticket lately?” And where is the guarantee that the guy who says “Yeah, it is my ticket” is the real owner? C’mon.
That money doesn’t belong to the casino. Why is it no big deal if they keep the money but it is a big deal if I keep the money? Just because they are a business doesn’t mean they can lay claim to any lost property. And casinos don’t operate for any other reason than to make a lot of money. You are grossly overestimating their civic good will.
As for the ludicrous theory comment, it sounds like you haven’t read my previous comments. I listed exactly what I’m going to do when I find a voucher. I’ll hang around for at least 15 minutes ( longer if I have a play nearby) and then I will wait some period of time before cashing it. This gives the person who left the money a chance to reclaim it.
I have returned several tickets in the first 15 minutes or so. If someone comes back to the machine with a panicky look and can estimate the amount of the ticket, I give it to them. Could they be scamming? I doubt it. If a scammer saw the ticket, they would just pick it up themselves. They would have to see me take the ticket in the 5 seconds it takes to cash out a ticket and then be confident that I would give up that ticket if asked. I put that at a very low probability.
If you choose to leave a ticket in a machine, that is your choice. I don’t think it is the best choice.
JB,
I’d maintain that I make ‘reasonable efforts to notify the true owner’.
Mostly I’d want to assure it got it to where it can be scanned and held it for safe keeping in case the owner comes back for it. I”d want that if I left a ticket behind. The best chance for that is at the cashier cage. Lots of surveillance/accountability there. No need for us to keep going around and around about it. We disagree, so be it. Thanks for posing the question. Most discussion on any blog in a while!
Candy,
The biggest difference between our opinions is that you believe casinos in general will try to return the money to the rightful owner. Given all their cost cutting measures, I don’t think they will spend much employee time ( which costs them money) to try and find the actual owner ( which costs them money).
You have much more faith in casino good will than I do.
“They build and maintain the infrastructures of life?” What does that even mean? Did you write that with a straight face?
Casinos pay taxes because they have to. The only thing they “build and maintain” is a tipping environment to avoid paying the majority of their employees a living wage. They have every advantage in the world and for the most part prey upon the delusional, the ignorant, and the lonely.
I once walked up to a machine and there was about $1 worth of credit. I looked around and saw no one who might have been playing the machine recently so I put my money in and incorporated the money left into my own credits. I don’t really care about laws that are foolish and would laugh in the face of any casino employee or police officer who would approach me for breaking the law.
Another time, several years ago, I was at a sidewalk sale and purchased a bunch of books. Later in the day, I lay down on the floor, turned on the television set, and started going through the books I had purchased. When I opened one of the books an envelope fell onto my chest and when I opened it, I found $300 (15 $20 bills). I didn’t even think of the law because I’m sure if I walked into any Philadelphia police station and told them the story, they would have been very polite and immediately rolled their eyes and mocked me when I left. However, I do have a moral compass so I decided to email those who ran the sale through Craigslist, where they advertised the sale. I felt two weeks was a reasonable amount of time to wait for a response. They never responded so I enjoyed the windfall–guilt-free, I might add.
No, I have never had any issues.
A friend of mine found a voucher at Casino Windsor several years ago. She continued playing and about an hour later, security came up to her, said she had claimed an abandoned ticket and asked her to give back the money. She did and that was the end of the issue. Zero repercussions.
I live in New Jersey and mostly go to Atlantic City. What happens depends on the casino. At “The Borgata”, security will track you down if you take/keep/cash another persons ticket. I heard two stories from people that lost/left TITO tickets getting their money back after security made arrest or pay back options to the ticket taker. The Borgata has lots of cameras everywhere, including their parking lot. “Big Brother” is always watching there. On the other hand, at a Pennsylvania casino, I discovered a good sized TITO sticking out of the machine next to me. I went to another area, put cash first, then my ticket second, then the found ticket and didn’t have a problem.
JJ,
Sorry but putting it in your pocket and sitting quietly, only asking someone if they come back looking for it is NOT an effort. The amount of time you do this doesn’t matter, once you have picked it up and placed it in your pocket, you crossed the legal definition by NV law… And your argument holds no water if you think what you are doing is a ‘reasonable effort’ but the casino doing the same thing you would do (put it in their pocket and wait for someone to come looking) is not a reasonable effort? Your ‘method’ is the same that a casino uses, per your own words… I am here to tell you that (my) casinos do make an effort to track down the owner, much more than waiting for someone to come claim it. Of course not every casino has the same policies, just like not every person has the same… doesn’t make it right to assume that all casinos are going to break the law just to keep $70 in unclaimed credits, just like it isn’t right to assume the average player would steal the ticket.
JB,
Why isn’t that a reasonable effort? The person can come back to the area and retrieve the ticket. The person can also go to security and ask about their missing ticket. Giving them a week to do so is pretty reasonable.
I’m curious to hear what your local casino does to find the owner of a lost ticket. I don’t believe a casino will tell you their policy on lost tickets, so how did you learn about your local casino’s policy?
And I disagree that a casino makes the same effort I do. I have no evidence to support your claim. What I do have is that a casino has no real motivation to find the owner of the ticket. I at least make a reasonable effort to return the ticket.
Again, if I have evidence that a casino will make a reasonable effort to find the owner, I would do things differently. But I don’t have any evidence to support that position. Also, if the casino would let me keep the ticket if no one claimed it, I would also turn in the ticket. That option isn’t available.
JJ:
I know my local casino’s policy because it is MY casino. I ran the Surveillance department for over 10 years and during that time, returned untold hundreds of thousands of lost and found dollars. I still work there in a different capacity and still know that we return a lot of lost money to its owners, any time that we can, for any amount over $20 (we set a limit because of the pure volume of these calls). I review these types of calls/incidents on a daily basis.
Most of the time, the people aren’t aware that they lost the money. Some times, they walk up to a machine, insert a ticket for hundreds of dollars, and then for some reason (alcohol, tired, etc) forget what they just did two seconds ago, and they run back to the last machine they were at, looking for the lost ticket they just inserted. This is why I say that putting a ticket in your pocket is not a reasonable effort. The casino will look at the last machine and tell them that they printed the ticket and took it with them, but can still cancel the ticket and reprint it if still live. Then you are in possession of a paid and invalid ticket, but again, you didn’t DO anything requiring effort. Think of that ticket as a wallet or cell phone (which we also return by the dozens every single day). If you just picked up someones wallet and told yourself that holding it in your pocket is an effort to find the owner, and after a week this is now your wallet, again, you are breaking the same law I quoted in the other post (which I am not sure you read, since you question how I know the policy at the casino that I stated that I still work at).
The idea that you need proof or support that this occurs is unreasonable. Just go apply at a casino for a low level position, and once hired, ask to see the policies, and then quit. Casinos are required to make the same effort required by the same law you are required to abide by. Trust me when I say that 99% of casinos do not need $70, or $700, or $7,000 dollars to survive, and just about every slot ambassador or lead will happily accept the tip they might receive for returning that money to a customer. This is most of the motivation to find the owner (along with general customer retention, word of mouth, etc).
The reason you can’t keep the money is a slot ticket is only valid when cashed by a casino, until it is cashed, it is worth less than the paper it is printed on (minimum internal controls mandate that tickets are validated before being paid except for in certain circumstances…). It holds no value once the casino cancels the ticket, so of course you couldn’t claim it the same way you could cash or other items of value (I believe all L&F laws state that items of value can be claimed by the finder once a time frame elapses). The general steps my casino takes for lost tickets is as follows:
Customer finds slot ambassador or lead and tells them where they thought they were at and the amount of the ticket. Call is placed to Surveillance to request review by slot lead once the ticket is verified to not be live and over $20 (live tickets are cancelled, under $20 may be paid by FSP depending on customer status). Surveillance reviews the customer from the time they appear to realize they have lost the ticket (this is very visible on camera) to the time and machine given by slots where the ticket was cashed. Usually, the ticket is dropped on the ground and someone else picks it up, sometimes it is taken from the printer. Surveillance then reviews the person who took the ticket, finds them and directs slots to their location. If the person who took it does not make restitution, security is involved. Depending on the value of the ticket, that person is given either 24 hours to pay, a formal trespass, or law enforcement is involved. Depending on the status of the customer who lost the ticket, and the amount of the loss, they may be given free slot play or told to check back after 24 hours, and notes are made on the customer’s account that they lost the amount (in case it is paid back). This process and the return payments are later audited by internal audit to be able to report on the amounts given back to customers, and to make sure internal theft isn’t occurring on the part of the casino (all amounts not claimed should be traceable to accounting ledgers).
In your particular case, if security had to contact you to get the ticket back, and you pulled it out of your pocket and gave it back explaining that you were waiting for the person to come back, you would get a warning against picking up things that are not yours, and a note would be entered in your account that stated you received a warning. If this happened again, you would be trespassed for not abiding by L&F law (not a casino policy… the law!)
I will gladly discuss policy, lost and found, theft, law, or AP and cheating (my specialty) anytime you want. Or anything else Surveillance, gaming, regulation related… email me.
JB,
Very interesting post. From your information, I’d agree that your casino makes a reasonable effort to find the owner. I don’t necessarily believe that all casinos make the same effort.
Your comparison to finding a wallet or cell phone is a big stretch. A cell phone or a wallet will usually have something that indicates the owner, and the recipient is much more likely to know they lost those items. By your own admission, people often do not even know they lost a ticket. And yes, if there is a player card used, it is easier to track.
I don’t believe my local casinos would make anywhere near the same effort that your local casino makes. And your idea to hire in at a casino just to see their internal policy is a little silly. That’s a lot of effort on my part and a big cost to the casino ( hiring, training, finding a replacement, etc). I’m surprised that someone who works at a casino would make sure a suggestion.
About 70% of the tickets I have found ( for more than a couple bucks) have been returned to the owner. I think that is a pretty good track record.
A relative of mine works at Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI. According to the worker, Four Winds puts abandoned tickets into an employee pool , used to help out employees who have a need ( unexpected medical bill, etc). At Four Winds, I would turn in a ticket. I don’t know how much of an effort they make to find the owner, I like that the state of Michigan doesn’t keep the money and Four Winds Casino doesn’t keep the money.
In Nevada it isn’t really an issue for me since abandoned credits have about a 26 second shelf life. They get snatched up in a hurry by hustlers.
And yes, $70 or $700 or $7000 does not affect a casino’s bottom line very much ( or shouldn’t anyway) but the caisno has to exert effort to find the owner. With all the cost cutting and short staffing, I just don’t believe it is a big priority for a lot of casinos. Your place sounds like the exception.
Just my two cents. It all comes down to what state you are in. Every jurisdiction and casino has different laws/polices/procedures/statutes. I am a Director of Surveillance who has worked in many different states. One quick story, a player dropped a $5,000 cheque on the floor. The cheque remained on the floor for a couple of minutes before another person came by and picked it up. We identified the person that picked it up. The commission decided that the person who picked it up had no knowledge of the person dropping it. There was no intent to defraud the person. The commission did assist in speaking with the patron in attempts to get it back. They advised the person that if he didn’t return it he would/could be barred from property. The person complied and returned it, but the commission said they legally could not do anything since there was no intent. The casino will always have the ability to bar someone for anything.
I worked in another state that the commission required us to look at any claim no matter how small or large because of the way the statute was written. Yes, we looked for a $1.00 tito before. I paid more in payroll for the person to find the tito. Also with all of the casinos I have worked for except for that one, I have had a $ threshold on when to look for a ticket. At my larger properties we wouldn’t waste our time for anything less than $50 during the week and $100 on weekends. At a smaller property it would have to be at least $20 before we would look. Each casino will have thresholds before Surveillance may be notified to look.
Basically it all comes down to where you are at.
I was playing a machine at MGM Grand in July and a MGM employee (not sure what her title was but very nicely dressed) walked by and noticed a $10 credit on the machine next to me. She cashed out the ticket and inserted it in my machine. We had a little talk and she said unclaimed titos are supposed to go into a fund for the school district but rarely makes it there. I was a little more than dumbfounded.
Interesting GWAE podcast with Bob Nersesian recently. He said categorically that in Nevada, the casino has no right to abandoned or lost TITOs, credits, chips, etc. When I find the link I will post it. The show was in the last month.
I was Greektown casino yesterday and I saw a woman walk past a machine. I looked at the machine and there was a ticket hanging out. I picked it up and it was for $149.60. I went around to the other side of the bank of machines, and the woman was looking through her purse. I asked her if she left a voucher in the machine and the look of surprise and relief told me it was her ticket. I was 95% sure before I asked her and 100% sure afterwards. I gave her the voucher and she thanked me.
Now, if I had left it in the machine, it might or might not have gone back to the owner. I’m guessing if I walked past it, it would have been gone in 3 minutes.
So, I don’t agree that leaving a ticket in the machine is the best way to go.
So, I was at Greektown Casino yesterday. I found a razor knife on the ground and turned it in to security. I also saw a $5 bill at the feet of a woman playing a slot machine. I asked her if it was hers. She said yes and judging by her body language, I’d say she was telling the truth.
So, my main goal is to reunite people with their lost cash and/or lost property. If I can’t find the rightful owner, I’d prefer I’d keep it over the casino but the number one goal is to return it to the owner.
A woman approached me and she had a $500 Casino voucher. She said that her and her husband were fighting and has split and she needed the money and that she would sell me the $500 voucher for $300. After thinking about it I’m a little bit apprehensive and I’m worried that it might be stolen. If I get there and they say that it is stolen am I in trouble?
Here is a slightly different situation but the same methodology is in play.
I was at shopping center and found an envelope with $528 in a bank envelope. No name, no withdrawal slip, just the cash. This was in front of a hardware store. I went into the store and talked to the manager. I said I found an envelope with money in near your store. I gave him my name and phone number and said if someone comes looking for it, they can call me and if they have the approximate value in question, I would return it.
Turns out the person had actually returned to the store before I found the envelope and asked about it. The manager informed his crew a couple hours after I talked to him and mentioned if anyone comes in for lost cash, let him know. One of the workers said yes, Customer A had come in looking for lost money. Customer A called me, described the envelope and the amount, and I delivered the money to that person, who was very grateful.
A couple things about this method. I retain control of the funds until the owner can be found. I could have given the money to the store but I’d rather hold on to it instead of them. Second, I retain some control over relinquishing the funds.
I try to do the same thing with found money in a slot machine but it is a more difficult task. I don’t trust that the casino will make a good faith effort to find the owner. If I had some proof of that, I’d be more willing to turn the money over.
Also, I don’t really want the casino to keep the money if the owner cant be found. Comments are welcomed, but I like my method of handling lost money.