• Home
  • Archived Blogs
    • James Grosjean (AP)
      • About James Grosjean
      • View all posts
    • Bob Dancer (Video Poker)
      • About Bob Dancer
      • View all posts
      • Video Poker Classes
    • Richard Munchkin (AP)
      • About Richard Munchkin
      • View all posts
    • Lou Antonius
      • About Dr. Lou Antonius
      • View all posts
    • Blair Rodman (Poker)
      • About Blair Rodman
      • View all posts
    • FrankB (Sports)
      • About FrankB
      • View all posts
    • Jack Andrews (Sports)
      • About Jack Andrews
      • View all posts
    • Jimmy Jazz (AP)
      • View all posts
    • Anthony Curtis
      • About Anthony Curtis
      • View all posts
    • Guest Bloggers
    • Podcast
  • The Games
    • Bingo Rooms
    • Blackjack
    • Keno Rooms
    • Poker Rooms
    • Video Poker
      • Best Video Poker
      • Bob Dancer Articles
      • Game Room
    • Sports Betting Books
  • Shop
    • Blackjack Strategy
    • Casino Comps & Promotions
    • Casino-Game Strategy Cards
    • Game Protection
    • James Grosjean Strategy Cards (ShopLVA Exclusive)
    • GWAE-Author Products
    • Las Vegas Advisor Membership + Member Rewards
    • Poker-Strategy
    • Sports Betting & Daily Fantasy
    • Tournament Play
    • Video Poker Strategy
  • Arnold Snyder’s Blackjack Forum Online
  • LVA Home
  • Home
  • Advantage Play
  • Advice for Players
  • So What?

So What?

February 19, 2019 6 Comments Written by Bob Dancer

The Las Vegas Advisor publishes a “Question of the Day” every day. People send in questions and the LVA gets someone knowledgeable to answer each question. Often video poker questions are shuttled my way.

In a recent QOD, someone noted that they were quarter NSU Deuces players at Green Valley Ranch Casino, which is run by Station Casinos. The players saw on the screen “advantage player tracking system.”  These players usually only played on multiplier days.

If they are getting a half-percent in players’ club rewards, this is a game that yields the player less than $3 per hour if they play perfectly. Basically, nobody plays NSU Deuces perfectly. I certainly can’t and estimate that fewer than one-in-a-thousand players can. My comment at the end of the QOD was, “It’s a real shame that casinos are doing this to quarter players. You might have a $3/hour advantage over them on the big multiplier days if you play competently. You’d think a casino could fade that.”

I received an email from someone who works in casino management and wrote, “Casinos no longer look at a $3/hour-winner player as just that – as their analysis adds $6 an hour (from all players) for free drinks and general maintenance items (bathroom, garage if parking is free) etc.”

This is probably true, although the $6 figure may vary from place to place. Casinos and other businesses have “overhead” expenses, and if that is going to be allocated on a per-player-per-hour basis, it’s going to be some such number.

Personally, I’m surprised that free drinks are included in this calculation. I believe that giving away free drinks is a money-making proposition for casinos. The more people drink, on average, the more they lose. Yes, the drinks cost the casino money, but the increased revenue from players more than offsets this cost.

Going with the $6 figure for now, it doesn’t change my feelings on this. If the player costs the casino $9 per hour, is that really a significant threat to the casino’s bottom line? Few players play completely accurately. Players bring friends along and their friends play even worse. Players have leaks, where even if they play video poker reasonably competently, they also bet on their favorite football team, and in that game, they are definitely a square. Even solid players go on tilt periodically and do some crazy stuff that usually costs them a lot of money.

I’ve found $200/hour opportunities in casinos. Sometimes I get restricted after the casino figures out that they are giving away the farm. I understand that. (I don’t like it, but I understand it.)

But there needs to be a threshold where casinos tolerate a certain level of “winner.” I personally think that threshold should be higher than $10 per hour.

Possibly I would feel differently were I a casino manager. But worrying about $10 per hour players often leads to kicking out losing players who have just gotten lucky recently.

If any winners at all bothers a casino, they can certainly remove games that give players a chance. But if those games are there, players should be allowed to play them.

Enough of my rant. I’ll go back to a regular blog next week.

 

Author’s Note:  After this article was prepared, I received information that the IGT brand for player tracking systems is called “Advantage.” Thus, “Advantage Player Track System Activated” simply means that the casino is using the IGT software. It does not mean necessarily that the system believes the particular players are playing with an advantage.

Does this mean my rant was misplaced? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I still believe that casinos should allow players with small advantages to play, and that Station Casinos are among the worst culprits at not allowing this to happen. I will never be allowed to see the actual data to prove this one way or another, but looking at the data from the outside, this is the way it appears to this observer.

Facebooktwitteryoutubeinstagram
Advantage Play, Advice for Players
Bob Dancer, video poker
Podcast – Rufus Peabody
Podcast – Vagabond, part 1

6 Comments

  1. Skippy Skippy
    February 19, 2019    

    “Advantage Player Track System Activated” What a stupid customer-facing name for a system! Why note “IGT Player Tracking System Activated”? At least brand it appropriately.

  2. philip j kaluszewski philip j kaluszewski
    February 19, 2019    

    if they have full pay duces 100.76 % why play nsud at 99.73 % ??. if u r going to get shafted why not grab all u can on the way down the shaft then move on !!

  3. philip j kaluszewski philip j kaluszewski
    February 19, 2019    

    I forgot that any game over 100% gets virtualy nothing in comps so its probably close either way !

  4. Richard Gordon Richard Gordon
    February 19, 2019    

    Bob

    Not that I’m defending their position, you did
    forget that drinks consist of water, coffee, tea, juice and soda as well as alcohol, and that while they may not pay them much, they do pay cocktail waitresses and bartenders

    Richard

  5. Joe Mama Joe Mama
    February 20, 2019    

    Back in my drinking days, I did a little experiment — I played on Winpoker software sober vs. with 2 or 3 beers, mistakes with only a couple of beers were dramatic.

  6. Ken Orgera Ken Orgera
    February 23, 2019    

    Good analysis and article!

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Join LVAs Mailing List


Sign me up for:

GWAE Post Categories

  • Advantage Play (653)
    • Advanced Strategy (262)
    • Advice for Players (258)
    • Comps & Promos (75)
    • Game Protection (10)
  • Breaking News (8)
    • News Stories (3)
  • Casino Games (395)
    • Blackjack (31)
    • Craps (11)
    • Other Table Games (13)
    • Poker (33)
    • Slot Machines (5)
    • Video Poker (302)
  • Daily Fantasy Sports (2)
  • Gambling Glossary & Terminology (19)
  • Gambling Online (7)
  • General Thoughts/Opinion (78)
  • GWAE Podcast Episodes (643)
  • Non-Casino Games (3)
  • Reviews: Books, Movies, TV (29)
  • Sports betting (46)
  • Tournaments (2)

Recent Comments

  • coconut on What Would You Do?
  • KOAficionado on Colin Jones (S1 E9): Knockout KISS
  • A McGill on New Blackjack, Same Old Baloney
  • 바카라사이트 on The Cheating Game
  • Bajilive on “You’ve Already Hit the Royal”

Recent Posts

  • Business credit cards for profession gamblers and APs
  • Podcast – Sherriff AP episode 9
  • Spinach!
  • THE IMPORTANCE OF EVALUATING YOUR RESULTS IN BLACKJACK
  • Billy’s Book
Never miss another post

GWAE Bloggers

  • About Andy Uyal
  • About Anthony Curtis
  • About Bill Ordine
  • About Blair Rodman
  • About Bob Dancer
  • About FrankB
  • About Jack Andrews
  • About James Grosjean
  • About Nicholas Colon
  • About Richard Munchkin
  • Bloggers
  • Play Desert Diamond
  • Podcast – attorney Bob Nersesian 12/8/22
  • Podcast – Mickey Crimm 3/23/2023
  • SuperBlog
“Gambling With An Edge” is a unique cyber-hub where some of most-respected minds in professional gambling collectively share their expertise, advanced-strategy tips, insights, and opinions via the GWAE “SuperBlog” and weekly GWAE radio show.
The expertise to be found here spans the full spectrum of casino games, advantage-play techniques, and legal-wagering opportunities in the U.S., with contributors including James Grosjean (AP, table games), Bob Dancer (video poker), Richard Munchkin (AP, author), Blair Rodman (poker), Frank B. (sports betting), and others.

Other LVA Blogs

Frugal Vegas with Jean Scott
LVA Travel
Stiffs & Georges with David McKee
Vegas with an Edge
Powered by LasVegasAdvisor.com copyright 1983-2018 Huntington Press | All Rights Reserved | Privacy Policy