Assume the following: You are a very strong player. In a particular, large casino, they only have two machines of the type you consider best. There are other players who play these same machines.
When you arrive on the property, how fast and purposefully do you walk to get to one of the good machines? Do you go straight towards the good machine or take some detours?
FAST: There are good reasons to walk fast. After all, if one of your competitors for the machine is coming through another door to reach the machines, the early bird gets the worm. If the machines are full, you want to be the first one there to see if you can maybe make a deal to have a machine when one of them is finished.
NOT FAST: There are good reasons to meander through the casino, taking your time and going in a roundabout way to your machines of choice. Most people do not rush through casinos (other than maybe to get to a bathroom). Rushing catches the eyes of observant employees and others. A slot director could well figure that if players are rushing to get to particular machines, perhaps those machines or the promotions should be looked at more closely.
When Math Boy visited GWAE not so long ago, he commented in passing that he can often tell whether a player is an AP or not simply by watching him move through a casino. We’ve had a number of guests on the show talking about tells at the poker table. This is a tell of a different sort, but just as easy for the knowledgeable person to read.
There is no such thing as knowing that nobody is watching when you’re in a casino. To be sure, much of the time you’re invisible. But not all the time. At most places, the cameras are always on, but often the output from a particular camera is ignored.
I make the assumption that everything I do in a casino can be seen. If I find abandoned credits on a machine, I turn on the change light and wait for an attendant to come and claim it. Although I’m in a differently category than many of my readers, I assume some people in every casino are looking for a good excuse to restrict me. So, I go out of my way not to give it to them.
At many casinos today, camera output is saved and they can go back several days later (or longer) and look at the tape should they so desire. Usually they don’t. But . . .
At the places with surveillance that’s the biggest threat to competent players, surveillance operators are trained to look for things that are “off.” Often such things are saved in the archives to see if it happens again — or has happened before.
Just walking purposefully is not a crime. In and of itself, it’s not particularly suspicious. But it’s unusual in a casino. If you show your act enough times, eventually counter measures will be taken against you.
Recreational players don’t particularly need to be concerned about this. You can do what you want. You will be giving off enough signs that you’re not a threat to a casino to be bullet-proof. Stronger players at least need to think about this. Are you giving the casino “extra” information about your play that they could use to restrict you?
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Glennis,
What is the basis for your comment? Trust you because you are Glennis? So, you disagree with the post, then insult the person who posts and yet offer no reason for your belief? Your comment seems extremely arrogant. It amounts to “You are wrong because I say so”. Not a very convincing argument.
As someone who regularly runs the strip in the morning, and occasional takes a slower jogging detour into a casino to use the bathroom, trust me. They do notice.
Bob–an unrelated question. Last week at the D, the progressive on quarters on DDB was up to $2350. I played for 3 hours, then walked away when I was up $500, but would you have kept going? I thought from the title of this it might be an article about the way you walk away from a machine. When should a player should be done with a session? Appreciate your column!
If you want attention,walk fast.
My buddy and I walked very fast through a casino a while back and 3 security people followed us,all on
walkie talkies!
They thought that we were up to something. It was ‘JDLR’.Just don’t look right.
I don’t think Glennis’ post was insulting or arrogant. Actually, its vibe was very similar to those folks who say they can assure us that the supernatural does not exist and so there is no outside force or influence (such as luck, serendipity, God who is prayed to, Satan or evil, fate, predestination, etc.) that decided what gambling result occurred. Lots of people think that I (and others) are nuts when we play video poker and get dealt 4 out of 5 cards for a top-payout hand and then stop and pray before we hit the “Draw” button, and then thank God whenever the desired card appears to produce the great payout. If the nay-sayers use the mild tone that Glennis used, then I don’t feel insulted, or feel that they are being arrogant.
Discounting people trying to draw attention or probe security (for instance there is a chip grabbing scam) and the tweakers I think mostly what you’re seeing is the difference between those new to the casino and regulars. Now, some regulars might have an edge, but most can’t or the casino would go under. And sure there are lots of people who claim they quit their day job to become “professional gamblers”, but most of them go bankrupt at some point. All you have to do to become a “professional gambler” is quit your day job and gamble at least 40 hours/week (of course there’s some details, consult your tax accountant or the new Jean Scott tax book before you quit your day job). Clearly results show that most “professional gamblers” don’t have a consistent edge. I am willing to believe that “some” do, but I think it’s an extreme minority.
Glennis,
Nice of you to speak for the entire GWAE audience. Talk about arrogant.
Offering a piece of information on casino cover isn’t being arrogant. It’s being informative. As someone who has felt the wrath of a casino’s watchful eye, I appreciate the information.
Since there are less good plays now than previously, keeping them alive is even more important. 15 years ago, if a certain casino restricted me, no big deal. I just go next door. Today, with less plays available, losing one is much more expensive. And the plays are still out there. I have one , $20 – $25 hour play I’ve been doing for 6 years. So, they do exist.
And if you think walking speed is a bragging event, I’m concerned about you. I’m also concerned that you calling someone arrogant and delusional isn’t being insulting. I feel sorry for the people who communicate with you.
Hey JImmy, generous of you to defend old Bob, but at least get your facts straight first.
NO WHERE in the posts by “Glennis” does this poster USE the word “arrogant” and “delusional.”
Read them for accuracy before blasting a poster.
Those words are ONLY used by YOU in YOUR posts.
YOU attack “Glennis” and personally insult that person using fabricated stuff made up in your head.
Just get it right, first, Jimmy . . . otherwise folks feel “sorry for the people who communicate with You.”
Hi BOB, Can I walk three steps behind you to see if I can duplicate your skills¿ Glennis or genius can walk behind us. Then we all win. (I have all your books.) Stay cool. As I said when I was stationed in France “Au Reservoir” B-)
Isn’t it just as likely that someone walking fast towards a machine is just a rec player going to his ‘favorite’ or ‘lucky’ machine?
I consider myself an advantage recreational player and believe that I’m watched because of the machines I play. My saving grace is that I drink beers the first night of any gambling trip. I know that I don’t play perfect 9/6 strategy without drinking so anyone watching probably doesn’t worry too much about me. I know that a player isn’t supposed to drink to excess, but I really am luckier when I drink. I get almost all of my royals that way. Which brings me to the point: You have to be lucky to get royals at a much higher rate than the average dictates. Playing strategy helps give you more hands, but you still have to push that button at the right time. Since there’s virtually no way to tell when to push the button for a winning hand, luck is always in the equation! I personally don’t walk any faster than normal since I can play any 9/6 or 8/5 BP machine at 25¢/50¢ denomination. I also have zero tolerance for drinking and driving. If I even have just a sip of something alcoholic I don’t drive. I never wanted to say: “I haven’t had too much”. Until I did have too much. However, I was lucky enough to marry my designated driver. She agrees that I’m far luckier when I drink.
Liz:
Thank you for mentioning the Jean Scott tax book. I haven’t been to The Gambler’s Bookstore in ages and so have not yet heard about it. I’ll see if I can pick it up. Should be a good read!
Based on the title, I thought Bob may have been reporting on an Aerosmith concert…”Walk This Way.” LOL.
Or reminiscing about seeing Jersey Boys…”Walk Like a Man…” Ha.
Bob, This is off-topic but I wanted to get your opinion on VP for Winners. I have been playing a particular game at a particular casino for over two years now with excellent results on about two million in coin-in on two years of win-loss statements. I have a degree in math so I know that this is a significant sample space. The game is rated at 99.256 on VPW. My results have been 97.133 (without handpay & freeplay); 100.925 (with handpay); 102.297 (with handplay & freeplay). Since this game includes a variable multiplier, is it possible that it has been under-rated by VPW?
the short answer to your question is no. Assuming you’re talking about 9/6 DDB Super Times Pay, the return when played accurately is 99.256%.
A fuller discussion of this will take some time. I’ll devote an entire blog on this subject later in February.
“2 million coin in” is misleading. Was this penny? Nickels? Dollars? $5 game? Single line? 3 play? 5 play? 10 play? 100 play? Yes there is 100 play STP.
Anyway, this game has a lot of variance. Your short term results, and you DO have short term results, will be all over the map.
Arrogant and delusional are my words. I use them to describe Glennis’ original comment. Read his post. Maybe condescending would be a better word than delusional. Glennis said that the poster’s content is of no interest to anyone on this site ( to me, that is pretty arrogant to speak for the entire GWAE audience) and secondly, he says that the post was done to make the writer feel more important about himself. That is an insulting comment.
And it’s no so much defending Bob as defending anyone who posts information that might useful to a more than recreational player.
I don’t know where your confusion occurs. Glennis posted, I commented on his post. What is the fabricated stuff of which you speak? As for any attack, I was attacking what Glennis said, not Glennis himself. I didn’t say he was stupid or inept or anything else. I said that if his post was indicative of how he communicates with people, I feel sorry for those people.
Please re read the entire string of comments before you reply.
Thank you.
Mostly quarter 10-play
Rich,
Since you are luckier when you play and drink, does that mean that you are costing yourself money when you gamble without drinking?
Depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to win at least $500, then you should quit if you are up $500 or more. If your goal is to hit the progressive, then you should play till the progressive is hit, in which case you also get a full share of the progressive meter rate on average. If the progressive doesn’t hit, the general rule is to play at least a cycle, that way on average you will hit it about 2/3rd’s of the time and are thus also getting about 2/3rd’s of the progressive meter rate. If you are playing much shorter times than a cycle, you shouldn’t include the progressive meter rate in your calculations, somebody else is getting your meter input.
What is a “cycle?
The average number of hands to hit something. On average, the royal flush cycle is something like 25,000 to 50,000 hands, it varies with your draw strategy of course. On the wizard of odds strategy generator, he calls it “hit frequency”. If you want more info, I suggest Paymar’s “Video Poker: Optimum Play”. Also check the vpfree faq.