I’ve recently written some more-complicated-than-normal (for me) articles concerning playing strategies. Today won’t be one of those!
One of my regular posters, Boris from Switzerland, posted (paraphrasing): “This is fine for the advanced players. Recreational players can use a phone app to get the same information. And they’ll probably get away with it.”
The reason I’ve never recommended this is because in Nevada and several other jurisdictions as well, using an electronic device to tell you how to play the hands is a felony. I’ve never heard of a player being arrested for this, but there’s always a first time. On Gambling with an Edge, attorney Bob Nersessian said several times that if a player were arrested for this, Nersessian would not be interested in defending him. “It’s against the law,” Nersessian said. “Don’t do it.”
It’s easy to make the argument that so many people use their cell phones for a variety of purposes in a casino, a player using a video poker app probably won’t be caught. And that’s true. You probably won’t be.
But what if you are? A small chance of being convicted for this is a LOT worse than no chance at all. When I started my video poker career, I did a number of things that weren’t completely on the up and up. I wrote about several of them in my Million Dollar Video Poker. So, I’m hardly in position to take the high moral ground on this.
But when I was starting, I believed I was a “nobody” gambler. I believed the worst a casino would do is to kick me out and say don’t come back. And it probably wouldn’t come to that. It was at least possible that I’d get off with just a warning.
I now am not in the same position. I am moderately famous in the gambling world, and a “fall from grace” today would be a lot more severe. Plus, I always assume, rightly or wrongly, that in casinos that do allow me to play, I have a much shorter rope than an unknown player would have. Receiving a warning instead of being prosecuted is much less likely for me today than it was 30 years ago.
Another factor that is true for me that isn’t universally true for other players is that I have the ability to figure out and master strategies, and I enjoy doing so. Thinking about, writing about, studying, and playing video poker occupies a much larger part of my waking hours, even after about 30 years of doing this, than these things occupy in the lives of most other players.
Other players have enough responsibilities and chosen activities that they simply do not have the time and ability to do what I do.
Legality and ability aside, it takes time to look up a hand. I like to play at 1,000 hands per hour or so, and getting out the app, turning it on, making sure you’re on the right game, and actually entering the five cards doesn’t happen instantaneously. Many players aren’t positive of the correct play but don’t want to slow down and take the time to look it up. If you have the game memorized, you don’t have these time delays.
So, I’m not going to commit this felony. I advise you not to. But I understand why the temptation to this might be strong for some players.
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Your statement “The reason I’ve never recommended this is because in Nevada and several other jurisdictions as well, using an electronic device to tell you how to play the hands is a felony”, is misleading and untruthful. A phone can not talk – all a phone is capable of doing is provide information. The player is the one who decides how they will incorporate the information, and the player will then decide what they will do. Accessing information is not a felony.
MGM in Vegas lets players use a cell phone at their table games now as long as they don’t hold up the game. I’ve seen several players with the BJ strategy on their phone with the phone sitting on the table.
David I dont believe you are correct. In Nevada you cannot for instance have a laptop open at a blackjack table to input information about the cards you have seen and to help figure your next bet size. At video poker, Bob Dancer is saying the same saw applies. Whether the law is just or not or we like it it is Nevada law. Also, casionos can be notoriously sore losers. Remember that. So if for instance someone hit a 100,000 video poker jackpot and the casino watching tape to verify noticed that person open phone to use it for strategy a few hands earlier who knows how they would react. Remember…sore losers.
The same law applies saw was a typo. You can use your mind at a blackjack table that is not illegal. Nevada law is that if you use a device that is a felony. It follows the same law applies to video poker. Casinos will happily pay slot jackpots to lucky folks and video poker jackpots as well. As Dancer is saying once you cross over into “sharp gambler” territory their reactions to your good fortune are much more erratic and unpredictable. See: Casino Robert DeNiro and the knuckle busting to the blackjack cheat team
Suppose a person decides to play craps for the first time in a casino. So he walks up to the table and not knowing how to play pulls out his phone and reads that the best bet on a craps table is to bet the don’t and lay the odds..
Would this be considered a felony??
Your brain is technically an “electronic device” as well. And this is scientific fact.
I suspect this answers the question “Why does a blackjack (or any table game) dealer jump on you so fast if you happen to pull out your cell phone to answer a call?” Seriously, I’ve always complied but never knew the reason. So is this the reason, and actually helping you avoid trouble? I’d guess that 99.99% of people reaching for their phones are expecting a call from a spouse or friend telling them what time for dinner, etc. This makes a lot more sense now.
Guessing that this whole issue is about only “electronic” devices. Neither Bob nor any commenters have mentioned the use of strategy cards.
Hi bob, hope all is well. What about 21 players who use a basic strategy chart at the table ? Thanks.
Ken and Harvey – Both of you bring up a very valid point. Phones and basic strategy cards offer the SAME information. Strategy cards ARE allowed to be used when playing blackjack. The real reasons why casinos do not want players to use a phone are (1) The cell phone info affects the bottom line because players, if they used the information, make better, more intelligent choices. (2) the use of phones slows down the game – imagine if everyone at the table was taking the time to look up how a hand should be played. Everyone knows (or should know) that with the built in edge the casinos have with the rules they implement, the faster the hands are played the more the casino makes. Citing the use of a phone as a felony is bullshit, by the same note, using a strategy card should, therefore, also be considered a felony – which it is not.
I keep a picture of Bob’s strategy cards on my cell phone. I don’t wanna risk losing the cards. So if I’m looking at a picture of a card on my cell phone, does that still qualify as against the law? I’m not inputting anything and asking for decisions I’m just reading options.
At a recent video poker carnival game debut, I chatted with an attorney who used an app openly and notoriously, in the legal sense of the term, and never had an issue. But I agree with Bob, it is easier to look it up in a strategy chart to refresh my memory than it is to dial up the cards on my phone. It might give a few cents advantage to look up the exact hold for a penalty card situation, but in a +EV situation your time is worth more than it is to look it up, combined with risk of distraction, losing your place, etc when you look at your phone vs a piece of paper in your shirt pocket or on your lap.
Another factor that is true for me that isn’t universally true for other players is that I have the ability to figure out and master strategies, and I enjoy doing so. Thinking about, writing about, studying, and playing video poker occupies a much larger part of my waking hours, even after about 30 years of doing this, than these things occupy in the lives of most other players.
No offense but what you do is really not that special. But keep thinking it is if that is what floats your boat.
A phone and a strategy card would not necessarily offer the same information. Only if you were just looking up a copy of a strategy card on your phone. An app could be written for a phone quite easily to assist in counting cards in a Blackjack game and offer perfect strategy advice to the player. That can give the player the advantage in the game and is exactly what some teams did 40ish years ago with computers hidden in their shoes in one example. That is what got the law banning “devices” written and passed.
This is basically a giant ad for buying Bob’s VP software. If an arrest hasnt happened yet then I’m with Boris on this one. Legally speaking yeah it’s a law. It’s an uninforced law.
Oh this is funny, guess what the reason the casinos put restrictions on you, so it doesn’t interfere with the casino making money. Do you really think they are doing this for you,NO.As soon as you walk in the door, your a looser.watch the movie casino 1982 the opening is tolded what to expect, I also go to casinos,so I know it’s the truth. And the casino always tell you good luck, but we really hope you loose.
David Miller: I’m not sure why you’re emphatically stating that Bob Dancer is wrong about the law. It is indeed a category C felony in Nevada to use a smartphone to analyze a video poker hand to determine the best play. The law as written is not confusing or ambiguous about this. Nevada Revised Statute 465.075.
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-465.html#NRS465Sec075
To others asking: a printed strategy chart is perfectly fine. Looking up a printed strategy chart on a phone gets into a gray area but is probably okay (I’m not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice).
Bottom line, I agree with Dancer: while one is unlikely to get in trouble for doing this, it’s probably not worth the risk.
I appreciate the fact that this subject has drawn so many interested readers. Without going too much into this chapter let’s just remind everybody that there were times when using a cell phone in the sports book, hence, even close to a sportsbook, was not permitted because of the possibility to speak to other bookies or so i guess. Most casinos , if not all, have now given up on that ridiculous rule (OR LAW?) because times have changed.
People are constantly checking on their phone doing something or whatever. Many people are even making phone calls while playing. So that would mean asking somebody on the phone how he would play a certain hand on videopoker would then technically also be not allowed I guess.
Of course since this has now officially been discussed it’s probably better to leave the phone at home while going to play videopoker, ha ha ha.
We know by now that the golden times of videopoker were between 1997 and 2012 or so. Since then it’s been going down and got worse and worse all the time. Even places like the legendary El Cortez are replacing their great coin-operated videopoker games with these new video slots. I don’t like this to happen, but it happens. We must understand that the next generation of gamblers will help ending the entire world of vp some day. And this subject as well.
From Switzerland
Boris
p.s. I would be more afraid using different players cards to collect freeplay offers that are not meant to be for me, and it happens all the time, anywhere. We all know that. Officially nobody is doing it, nobody speaks about openly, but we can see that happen all the time. And from the Surveillance’s point-of-view this is super easy to detect. Finding out if somebody is texting his wife that he will be running late or whether is he checking if he rather should hold (7-8-10)-Q-K or rather (Q-K) is something that a casino probably would not be so much scared of.
I think it’s a good idea to put it in proportion and “calibrate” the situation. From a casino operator’s point of view I would definetely say something if sombody is wagering 100 or 500 dollars per round on a low-hold videopoker machine in the VIP section and is getting all kinds of extra goodies , counce-back, extra comps, super free play, etc, compared to a 9-to-5 gambler sitting in a quarter section struggling hard to lose little or perhaps win a little bit. I think even a judge would have quite a chuckle if that small-money gambler would be sent to court and had to defend himself. That case would probably be dropped anyways. LOL.
If you were the slot manager….who would you rather be after if that person is grabbing a phone and doing something with it?
I rather believe that in that “law” about using electronic devices what they really mean are wise guys using mico-cams in their sleeves and tracking a sequence of cards in the shoe and perhaps others hacking into the computer of a slotmachine and then triggering huge payouts.
If a casino wants to be super strict on this rule then they would have to prohibit the use of all cell phones on the premise. But then they would lose the customers.
From Switzerland
Boris
“
Labeling the use of a cell phone to view blackjack strategy as a FELONY is absolute bullshit. There, I have said it again. Now tell me how using a strategy card for blackjack is NOT a felony? Anyone?
A cell phone can do a lot more than a strategy card can.
I’m surprised that where Boris plays there is no prohibition against cell phone use in a sports book or blackjack pits. I’ve never seen a player NOT be stopped by a dealer from using one at a BJ table. Never have played outside the US.
I’d take the advice of those in the business. Especially that of an attorney who it seems specializes in cases between players and casinos.
The small annoyance of having to step away from the table to answer a call or text about dinner time is worth it to avoid any possible confrontation with casino personnel, felony or not.
Mr. Dancer,
I’ve used your strategy cards for 25+ yrs as they are as Linus’ blanket. If you ever noticed Linus never used it, only carried it. my mind may drift looking towards lovely women as they pass by while enjoying many libations at the bar. Your readers are as most most humans, jealous [of you as a pro/writer] and you can’t or won’t say, so, I’ll tell’em; Shut the hell up !!
Bob, you addressed the topic very nicely and I completely agree with your advice not to use the cell phone. It’s not about whether we think the use of cell phones at the videopoker machines should be allowed or not. It’s about the risk to get banned as an advantage player. The actual law serves the casinos with the right to ban a cell phone user, whenever they want. And they will do exactly that on skilled players they want to get out of the house.
You can learn in online games about problem-solving, teamwork, and strategic thinking through gaming. It’s a fantastic way to sharpen the mind while having a blast!
I feel compelled to make a comment about all the video poker players whining about the good old days of video poker. It kinda reminds me of the Bruce Springsteen song Glory Days. We video poker authors wanted to provide something to the state of the art of profession gambling that you in turn, without any effort on your part, made money off of. Sure, we’ve had some book sales and and our reputation was enhanced, but you guys benefited by our hard work.
Now you feel that there is an obligation to continue to provide you with winning situations. What’s in it for us? Can’t you figure things out for yourselves? I personally have done very well exploiting profitable situation apart from video poker.
NRS 465.075 Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
Ê except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission.
There’s the language of the statute direct from the Nevada Legislature. A video poker strategy app on a smartphone is software which is designed, constructed, or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing a game in a licensed gaming establishment because it tells you the correct cards to hold (the obtained advantage) after analyzing the strategy for playing to be used in the game while analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game (the possible outcomes). How anybody thinks this is bullshit is beyond me and clearly evinces a lack of understanding of the law, or plain, unambiguous English for that matter. Can you use your phone app on your smartphone to talk to your wife while you’re playing? Sure. Can you use your phone to analyze what would be the best cards to hold while sitting at a machine? No. Just because nobody’s taken it to court yet doesn’t mean it’s not against the law. Volunteer to be the test case at your own risk.
Thank you to KING of HEARTS! enough said.