{"id":5711,"date":"2017-04-30T15:35:52","date_gmt":"2017-04-30T22:35:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.gamblingwithanedge.com\/?p=5711"},"modified":"2023-06-21T10:43:26","modified_gmt":"2023-06-21T17:43:26","slug":"poker-players-golf-gambling-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/poker-players-golf-gambling-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Poker Players and Golf Gambling, Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>As much as I like poker, my favorite gambling game is golf. The combination of physical skill, the ability to perform under pressure, and understanding of the gambling aspect and negotiating skills, not to mention getting out of the poker room and being outdoors in beautiful settings, playing a fascinating game, make it a natural draw for poker players.<\/p>\n<p>Before the Internet and technology boom, when poker players actually talked to each other at the table, the two main subjects were sports betting and golf. I sometimes felt bad for players who weren\u2019t golfers, because golf talk at the poker tables often dominated the conversation, either recapping past matches or setting up future ones. Some non-golfing poker players, or those who had played, but never for serious money, were drawn into it by the banter, usually with bad results. For them at least!<\/p>\n<p>Experienced golf gamblers eat for lunch those who stumble in unaware. When I heard that Daniel Negreanu, who was hitting his poker stride, both playing and with endorsements after the poker explosion of 2003, was getting involved with the likes of Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese on the golf course, I had to chuckle, as Daniel was the perfect target: He had a lot of new-found money, liked to gamble, and knew virtually nothing about golf gambling. Doyle, Chip, and a lot of the other old timers had gambled at least as much on golf over the years as they had at poker, and knew all the tricks and hustles. Daniel eventually learned, but it cost him a bunch to do so.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sure there have been poker-playing golf hustlers for as long as the games have been played in America. The first one I read about was Titanic (Ty) Thompson (<em>The Unsinkable Titanic Thompson<\/em>, by Carleton Stowers), who it\u2019s said could have competed with the best tour players. But, professionals in those days made pennies compared to the fortune Ty made fleecing suckers. He could break par right or left-handed, knew every hustle in the book, inventing many of them, and played just well enough to win the bet or match he was involved in, never showing his true talent and queering future action. Ego in gambling can be very expensive.<\/p>\n<p>Johnny Moss saw the opportunity in golf gambling, in the post-Depression days when Texas was overflowing with oil money, and made himself into a very good player. There\u2019s no telling how much he won hustling oil millionaires.<\/p>\n<p>Gene Fisher was a good poker player, winning two WSOP bracelets, but a much better golfer. It\u2019s said that he set up the famous match in 1966 in Texas with Lee Trevino (who got his start as a golf gambler), and pro Ray Floyd, when Lee was still working at a golf club and Ray was a budding superstar:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.golfchannel.com\/video\/feherty-lee-trevinos-money-match-vs-raymond-floyd\/\">http:\/\/www.golfchannel.com\/video\/feherty-lee-trevinos-money-match-vs-raymond-floyd\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p>A major factor in the success of a golf gambler is the ability to play under pressure. A lot of players have all the skills, but can\u2019t perform when it counts. It\u2019s called \u201cthe choke factor\u201d. Among PGA Tour players, only the best can handle the pressure of the really big events. It\u2019s why Masters Sunday is way different than the final round of the John Deere Classic. With great golf gamblers, the theory &nbsp;is that every opponent has a bet size he can\u2019t handle. The trick is to find that level and get him there.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve gambled on golf for a long time, occasionally for pretty high stakes, and I\u2019ve never gotten so nervous over a bet that it affected my performance. However, I did find my choke point with no money on the line.<\/p>\n<p>Several years ago, when I was playing well, I entered some local amateur tournaments. One time I was paired in the final round with Brady Exber and Kelly Knieval (Evel\u2019s son), two of the best players in Las Vegas. There were about a hundred people around the first tee as we got ready to tee off. I remember as it came my turn to hit, I started feeling really weird\u2014shaky, somewhat nauseous\u2014and I started to wonder if I\u2019d eaten something bad. Then it hit me: this is what it\u2019s like to be nervous? There was about a 100 yard carry to reach the fairway. In between were a bunch of big boulders. I managed to get the ball teed up, and made a horrible swing, basically topping the ball, which hit a boulder dead on. I watched it ricochet high in the air and back over my head and into the street, along with a hundred other people, who were polite enough to not laugh. It\u2019s the only time it\u2019s ever happened to me, but now I know how it feels to players who reach the choke point. It can be devastating.<\/p>\n<p>The other ability a good golf gambler must have is the ability to negotiate advantageous wagers, which can be a very complex process. There are countless ways to bet on golf. The great thing about golf is that the handicap system is designed to level the playing field. With the right adjustment, a golfer of any skill level could have a fair game with Jordan Speith or Dustin Johnson (how I miss being able to say Tiger Woods).<\/p>\n<p>The vast majority of golfers make small bets just to keep it interesting. The most common bet is known as a nassau. It&#8217;s played in match-play format, with a bet on the front nine, a bet on the back nine, and a bet on the overall eighteen. Generally, among friendly players, established handicaps are used to adjust the game. For example: Player A has a 10 handicap, Player B a 6. Player A would get a stroke on the two lowest handicap holes on each side. This type of adjustment would apply in some form to the myriad golf bets, which are only limited by imagination.<\/p>\n<p>Golf is a game of honor, and among honorable players the handicap system works just fine. However, where money is involved, honor sometimes takes a back seat. Players who \u201cphony up\u201d their handicaps, either by putting in fake scores, or purposely throwing off strokes, are known as \u201csandbaggers.&#8221; Sandbagging is a real problem in amateur tournaments, such as country club member-guest events, where a lot of money is often bet on the side. It\u2019s also a problem when players make significant bets based on handicaps.<\/p>\n<p>When it comes down to poker players who gamble on golf for large amounts of money, the issue is that most of them don\u2019t keep handicaps, and if they do they are very likely to be inflated. The old adage is that most bets are \u201cwon or lost on the first&nbsp;tee,\u201d meaning that if you negotiate a bad game, your chances of winning are greatly diminished. In some big matches, pre-match haggling can go on for days or weeks. And it\u2019s not rare for a player to walk off the first tee if he doesn\u2019t like the game.<\/p>\n<p>Negreanu, Ivey, and the other big-time poker players who were played for suckers early on learned fast. Many of them hired personal caddies, who traveled with them, guided them around the course, and advised them on playing and betting strategy, even negotiating the games. Once they learned what it was all about, these guys became the hustlers.<\/p>\n<p>In Part 2, I\u2019ll discuss the difference between golf, the game of honor, and the completely different animal that is serious golf gambling.<\/p>\n<a class=\"synved-social-button synved-social-button-follow synved-social-size-48 synved-social-resolution-single synved-social-provider-facebook nolightbox\" data-provider=\"facebook\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" title=\"Follow us on Facebook\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/lasvegasadvisor\" style=\"font-size: 0px; width:48px;height:48px;margin:0;margin-bottom:5px;margin-right:5px;\"><img alt=\"Facebook\" title=\"Follow us on Facebook\" class=\"synved-share-image synved-social-image synved-social-image-follow\" width=\"48\" height=\"48\" style=\"display: inline; width:48px;height:48px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border: none; box-shadow: none;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/wp-content\/plugins\/social-media-feather\/synved-social\/image\/social\/regular\/96x96\/facebook.png\" \/><\/a><a class=\"synved-social-button synved-social-button-follow synved-social-size-48 synved-social-resolution-single synved-social-provider-twitter nolightbox\" data-provider=\"twitter\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" title=\"Follow us on Twitter\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LVA_Tweet\" style=\"font-size: 0px; width:48px;height:48px;margin:0;margin-bottom:5px;margin-right:5px;\"><img alt=\"twitter\" title=\"Follow us on Twitter\" class=\"synved-share-image synved-social-image synved-social-image-follow\" width=\"48\" height=\"48\" style=\"display: inline; width:48px;height:48px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border: none; box-shadow: none;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/wp-content\/plugins\/social-media-feather\/synved-social\/image\/social\/regular\/96x96\/twitter.png\" \/><\/a><a class=\"synved-social-button synved-social-button-follow synved-social-size-48 synved-social-resolution-single synved-social-provider-youtube nolightbox\" data-provider=\"youtube\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" title=\"Find us on YouTube\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/c\/LasVegasAdvisorSHOW\" style=\"font-size: 0px; width:48px;height:48px;margin:0;margin-bottom:5px;margin-right:5px;\"><img alt=\"youtube\" title=\"Find us on YouTube\" class=\"synved-share-image synved-social-image synved-social-image-follow\" width=\"48\" height=\"48\" style=\"display: inline; width:48px;height:48px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border: none; box-shadow: none;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/wp-content\/plugins\/social-media-feather\/synved-social\/image\/social\/regular\/96x96\/youtube.png\" \/><\/a><a class=\"synved-social-button synved-social-button-follow synved-social-size-48 synved-social-resolution-single synved-social-provider-instagram nolightbox\" data-provider=\"instagram\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" title=\"Check out our instagram feed\" href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/lasvegasadvisor\" style=\"font-size: 0px; width:48px;height:48px;margin:0;margin-bottom:5px;\"><img alt=\"instagram\" title=\"Check out our instagram feed\" class=\"synved-share-image synved-social-image synved-social-image-follow\" width=\"48\" height=\"48\" style=\"display: inline; width:48px;height:48px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border: none; box-shadow: none;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/wp-content\/plugins\/social-media-feather\/synved-social\/image\/social\/regular\/96x96\/instagram.png\" \/><\/a>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As much as I like poker, my favorite gambling game is golf. The combination of physical skill, the ability to perform under pressure, and understanding of the gambling aspect and negotiating skills, not to mention getting out of the poker room and being outdoors in beautiful settings, playing a fascinating game, make it a natural [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":12,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"spay_email":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false},"categories":[2,685],"tags":[1537,802,1533,365,1541,1539,1534,89,696,1540,1538,1535,1542,142,145,1536,182,693],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v16.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Poker Players and Golf Gambling, Part 1 - Gambling With An Edge<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.lasvegasadvisor.com\/gambling-with-an-edge\/poker-players-golf-gambling-part-1\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Poker Players and Golf Gambling, Part 1 - Gambling With An Edge\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"As much as I like poker, my favorite gambling game is golf. 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