Four Queens all summer great promo

Originally posted by: jstewa22

Playing DB for dollars at $16/pt or playing JoB for 50c at $8/pt will require the same number of hands to earn the 1200 points.  Much less of a grind if you can play dollars for $8/pt (they got rid of their dollar 9/6 JoB maybe four or five years ago; I think the best option now is the Illinois Deuces prog at the bars).
 
David is right, playing JoB strategy on the DB machines yields a decent return, but with much higher volatility than JoB.  It is a tough strategy to learn and a lot of the EV comes from penalty card situations (although I think most of that is from the A vs AH).


   For clarification on what I posted - the 10/7 Double Bonus strategy, when played correctly, is difficult to learn and play. The strategy for 9/6 Jacks or better is a much simplier strategy to learn and play. Playing 10/7 Double bonus correctly yields a return of 100.17%. Playing jacks or better correctly yields a return of 99.54%.  If one plays 10/7 Double bonus using the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy, will yield a return of 99.63%. Granted 100.17% is a larger return then 99.63%, BUT using the correct 9/6 Jacks or better strategy when playing 10/7 Double bonus is, for simplicity sake, easier to understand and play while only giving up .54% of expected value. With the generous comp system at the 4 Queens, using the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy, makes it almost equal to the 100.17% payback strategy for 10/7 Double bonus. I use the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy exclusively myself and have had great success over the past 3 years. 

Originally posted by: jstewa22

Playing DB for dollars at $16/pt or playing JoB for 50c at $8/pt will require the same number of hands to earn the 1200 points.  Much less of a grind if you can play dollars for $8/pt (they got rid of their dollar 9/6 JoB maybe four or five years ago; I think the best option now is the Illinois Deuces prog at the bars).
 
David is right, playing JoB strategy on the DB machines yields a decent return, but with much higher volatility than JoB.  It is a tough strategy to learn and a lot of the EV comes from penalty card situations (although I think most of that is from the A vs AH).


  You say - (they got rid of their dollar 9/6 JoB maybe four or five years ago - According to vpFree2, that is incorrect. There are 4 JOB  $1 uprights - beside cashier towards restrooms - two on each side of Fremont Street end of bank ($16 per point) . They were there when I was there 2 weeks ago.

I wouldn't recommend David's approach of playing 10/7 badly. It's true that you'll still be better off than playing JOB (99.69 vs. 99.54), but you get that at the cost of greatly increased volatility. My general approach is to promotions is to put the needed money through with as little risk as possible, so I prefer low volatility games, even at a small cost in EV. David's approach yields a -EV of about $27 for the completion of the promo vs. -$40 for playing JOB.

 

Therefore, if I do choose the higher volatility game, I want to play it perfectly. Yes, DB strategy is difficult, but the good news is that you can learn it in stages. Learning and applying just the straight and flush rules elevates you to 100.00. The remaining .17 is mostly penalty card stuff, which you can learn gradually--or ignore altogether and still play at breakeven EV.

 

The best way to learn DB is to concentrate on the "whys" of differences between that game and JOB. For instance, you keep inside straights rather than drawing five (or hold things like J987) because the straight pays 5. You hold Axx suited because the flush pays 7. That sort of thing.

 

I learned the strategy about 20 years ago by reading Dancer's guide to the game. I estimate that it took me five hours and about 4000 hands to reduce my error frequency to once an hour.

Originally posted by: David Miller

   For clarification on what I posted - the 10/7 Double Bonus strategy, when played correctly, is difficult to learn and play. The strategy for 9/6 Jacks or better is a much simplier strategy to learn and play. Playing 10/7 Double bonus correctly yields a return of 100.17%. Playing jacks or better correctly yields a return of 99.54%.  If one plays 10/7 Double bonus using the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy, will yield a return of 99.63%. Granted 100.17% is a larger return then 99.63%, BUT using the correct 9/6 Jacks or better strategy when playing 10/7 Double bonus is, for simplicity sake, easier to understand and play while only giving up .54% of expected value. With the generous comp system at the 4 Queens, using the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy, makes it almost equal to the 100.17% payback strategy for 10/7 Double bonus. I use the 9/6 Jacks or better strategy exclusively myself and have had great success over the past 3 years. 


  Since the majority of video poker players are not able to/willing to invest the time and money necessary to learn perfect 10/7 Double Bonus strategy perfectly, I suggest that they consider what I have proposed. 


Originally posted by: David Miller

  Since the majority of video poker players are not able to/willing to invest the time and money necessary to learn perfect 10/7 Double Bonus strategy perfectly, I suggest that they consider what I have proposed. 


It costs no money at all, since the Wizard of Odds, among others, has posted the proper detailed strategy on his website. As far as time is concerned, anyone willing to expend a little bit of effort can learn the more frequent strategy moves in about an hour. Furthermore, there are printable strategy charts available, also for free, which a player can have with him and use at the machine (the casino won't care).

 

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/double-bonus/10-7/

 

Unless you're really pressed for time, you can play as slowly as you need to, consulting the chart as often as you have to--that will decrease over time. In terms of hitting the 4Q promo, someone playing at average speed on a .25 DB machine will fulfill the requirement in about 12 hours of play. A $1 DB player would need 6 hours, since the points earning rate is $16/point on those machines.

 

Since for your play to fulfill the promo, you will make $16 in +EV on 10/7 DB rather than lose $40 playing 9/6 JOB, or lose $27 playing 10/7 using 9/6 strategy, many people would consider it worth the effort.

 

I can post a quick-and-dirty chart of the seven most common 10/7 strategy moves if anyone's interested.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

 

I can post a quick-and-dirty chart of the seven most common 10/7 strategy moves if anyone's interested.


Interested 

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

It costs no money at all, since the Wizard of Odds, among others, has posted the proper detailed strategy on his website. As far as time is concerned, anyone willing to expend a little bit of effort can learn the more frequent strategy moves in about an hour. Furthermore, there are printable strategy charts available, also for free, which a player can have with him and use at the machine (the casino won't care).

 

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/double-bonus/10-7/

 

Unless you're really pressed for time, you can play as slowly as you need to, consulting the chart as often as you have to--that will decrease over time. In terms of hitting the 4Q promo, someone playing at average speed on a .25 DB machine will fulfill the requirement in about 12 hours of play. A $1 DB player would need 6 hours, since the points earning rate is $16/point on those machines.

 

Since for your play to fulfill the promo, you will make $16 in +EV on 10/7 DB rather than lose $40 playing 9/6 JOB, or lose $27 playing 10/7 using 9/6 strategy, many people would consider it worth the effort.

 

I can post a quick-and-dirty chart of the seven most common 10/7 strategy moves if anyone's interested.


Since the majority of video poker players are not able to/willing to invest the time and money necessary to learn perfect 10/7 Double Bonus strategy perfectly, I suggest that they consider what I have proposed.

Originally posted by: David Miller

Since the majority of video poker players are not able to/willing to invest the time and money necessary to learn perfect 10/7 Double Bonus strategy perfectly, I suggest that they consider what I have proposed.


Why are you repeating yourself?

OK, here you go. For the simplest approach, don't bother with the modifications--just use the "base" rule.

 

1. Draw one to an inside straight that contains one or no high cards, and also if it contains two high cards that are NOT suited. Draw one to an inside straight that contains three high cards.

 

2. A high pair is better than a four-flush, and a four-flush is better than a low pair. Four to an outside straight is better than a low pair but not better than a high pair.

 

3. Ace + high card: keep just the Ace unless Rule 4 applies.

 

4. High card + two suited low cards is better than the high card alone.

 

5. Two to a royal is better than a lone Ace, but not if that includes a K. So QJ, Q10, J10, but not KQ, KJ, or K10 (there are exceptions to this).

 

6. Draw one to Aces up (AA99x, and so forth), and keep Aces full (AAA55).

 

7. Any three to a straight flush is better than one high card.

 

Some past Bob Dancer columns have gone deep, deep into eldritch penalty card territory, but this is all you need to reach about 100.1 percent. Of course, you also need to learn the magic dance for when you're drawing to three Aces.

Edited on Aug 8, 2024 7:29pm
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

OK, here you go. For the simplest approach, don't bother with the modifications--just use the "base" rule.

 

1. Draw one to an inside straight that contains one or no high cards, and also if it contains two high cards that are NOT suited. Draw one to an inside straight that contains three high cards.

 

2. A high pair is better than a four-flush, and a four-flush is better than a low pair. Four to an outside straight is better than a low pair but not better than a high pair.

 

3. Ace + high card: keep just the Ace unless Rule 4 applies.

 

4. High card + two suited low cards is better than the high card alone.

 

5. Two to a royal is better than a lone Ace, but not if that includes a K. So QJ, Q10, J10, but not KQ, KJ, or K10 (there are exceptions to this).

 

6. Draw one to Aces up (AA99x, and so forth), and keep Aces full (AAA55).

 

7. Any three to a straight flush is better than one high card.

 

Some past Bob Dancer columns have gone deep, deep into eldritch penalty card territory, but this is all you need to reach about 100.1 percent. Of course, you also need to learn the magic dance for when you're drawing to three Aces.


  Once again, I repost my previous posting for those who are not looking to be making a living playing video poker and want to have possibly a better chance at winning some money - Since the majority of video poker players are not able to/willing to invest the time and money necessary to learn perfect 10/7 Double Bonus strategy perfectly, I suggest that they consider what I have proposed.

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