theoritical loss

I actually have two questions. Can anyone please explain in a simple formula how my theoritical loss is measured? My other question is how can I improve it using the same gambling budget that I currently have so that my comps might increase?
Thank You

As far as I know (off of the top of my head), the Theoretical Loss has directly to do with the house advantage (if there is one) in the game. So what this means is that for example, with perfect play playing 9/6 Jacks Or Better Video Poker, the game's return is 99.54%. So that would give you a Theoretical Loss of .46% for that kind of game.

Now what the casino gives players in comps is some kind of percentage of that Theoretical Loss percentage (such as 40%) of how much you've played times that Theoretical Loss Percentage.

As for getting comps, everything can very much differ from casino to casino. There are casinos that will base what they decide to give you (if they decide to give you anything) based on not only how much coin-in you have played through (hand after hand after hand), but also on how much time you have played (casinos can require play of for example 3 to 4 or possibly more hours a day to get anything out of them) and they can also base comps on whether you have won or lost over your trip.

And also as far as I know, the Theoretical Loss amount can not be improved since it is based entirely on what the casino advantage of the game (if there is one) is. I'm saying if there is one because I think that the casinos can give you less (at their discretion) if the game that you are playing does not have a casino advantage (such as if you play 10/7/5 Double Bonus Video Poker).

The amount of comps that you get will differ from casino to casino and I'm sure that a factor in it is where the casino is located and what their overhead is.

What I mean by this is that players can get more bang for their buck if they play in Downtown LV as opposed to on the Strip.

I hope that this helps you!

RecVPPlayer

P.S. -- And yes, the only way that you can improve things for yourself is for you to learn how to play each hand in the best possible manner (assuming that you are playing Video Poker) and to play games with as low of a casino advantage or as high as a Player advantage as you can. There are at the very least good books and computer programs available that can help you with that, so please look into that.

Theoretical loss equals the aggregate amount of your wagers multiplied by the house advantage.

So if you wager $1.25 per hand and play 1,000 hands, the aggregate amount of your wagers will be $1,250. If the game that you are playing has a house advantage of 0.5%, your theoretical loss will be $6.25. Note that your actual results will likely be very different from your theoretical results.

The only ways to improve your theoretical results are to (1) play games that have little or no house advantage and (2) play perfect, or close to perfect, strategy.

Peanie,It sounds like you are asking how can you improve your theo(theoretical win/loss) so your comps increase.
Since comps are based on a percentage of your theo you would like to know how to improve that.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
To increase your theo the answer is simple:
1.play more hours
2.play higher stakes
3.both

You can greatly increase your theoretical loss AND your comps by playing slots instead of video poker. This could be very expensive for you, lol.

Please note that theoretical loss is set on machines based on the real world payback. Most VP machines are set with a 2% to 5% theo. It varies depending on the pay table but most people don't play anywhere close to perfect.

Bottom line is that, if comps are based on theoretical loss, you'll get more comps if you play worse games.

Everyone is correct, though, most casinos will assume a theoretical loss higher than what you'd lose with mathematically-perfect play. So it's good for your bottom line, no matter what you play, to play better than the average customer.

Depending on the property and it's policy, you can sometimes find out your theo by asking a host. Once you know your coin in and theo, you can calculate what the casino calculates as their hold for a particular game.

In our experience, that number is always more than the manufactuere's hold for that pay schedule. Sometimes the difference is nominal; sometimes way off the mark in the players favor. For example, a year ago I was playing $1 9/6 JoB with .3% CB yet that particular casino was calculating a 8% hold for comp purposes. From the players perspective, that was a $32 theo loss on $20k coin in. From the casino's perspective, they figured you were worth $1,600 to them which always meant $500-600 in comps. Even at retail, this was (and maybe still is) a strong deal. This level of play also warranted a FP mailer worth $200-300 every 2-3 months. Nothing to live on but a very strong deal nonetheless.

The key is to find games in a casino in which they value the hold at a significantly higher amount than the game actually is. If you're not giving up too much of an advantage, you can easily make up in worthwhile, real dollar comps significantly more than your theo loss. Access to this info varies by property, host and even machine despite offering the same game.

Dan

Great info Dan.
Thanks

All the replies so far have addressed machine play only. With table games you're at the mercy of the pit supervisor. There are ways to improve your theo while at the tables. While you play a rating card is tracking your play. When you first buy in the floor will start the card. They will typically watch your first two or three bets and write down the average. At some frequency they will come back, check everyone's bet size and update the cards. At the end of your play someone will calculate your theo. That's similar to if you're playing slots or VP; average bet X hours played X average hands per hour X house advantage. At a machine the coin in replaces the hours played and average hands per hour.

One way to increase your advantage is to increase your initial few bets. Another is to draw the supervisors attention when you put out a big bet. Those address the first factor in the formula. As for hours played there are a few things that can help. Real or phantom phone calls and frequent or frequent/prolonged breaks (bathroom, gotta run to the room quick, etc.) Make sure you leave your chips at the table when you do this.

You have a lot of control on average hands per hour but the house has a set number they use in the calculation. For instance, at BJ the standard in most places is around 60 hands per hour. A single player at a six deck shoe or CSM can easily play over a hundred. You're much better off playing at a full DD table where there are lots of decisions being made and shuffles are frequent. Additionally, they can only deal the cards as fast as you place your bets and make your playing decisions. I've never heard of someone being asked to leave for playing slow. Keep in mind that the other players may get fed up and leave if it's too slow, undermining what you are trying to accomplish. Another one I don't recommend is changing chips frequently. Giving them a stack of red to change to green and then changing green back to red a few minutes later. This will piss off the players, dealers and pit.

Don't underestimate the value of getting in good with the dealers and floor supervisors. This is especially true in the smaller, lower limit places. If the general consensus is you are fun to deal to and chat with they will want you to come back and may make it easier by padding your rating card. Some will say that won't happen but I know it to be true. I've had several supervisors tell me they would never rate me below "x" dollars no matter what I was betting. I can tell it's true when I get home and email my host to get my play for a trip. They know the host taking care of you hasn't spent any significant time watching you play and will base your comps on the numbers entered into the database. This will be most successful if you play in a smaller place during the same shift.

If you strictly play machines this will not be helpful at all but maybe a few table players will get some value from it.