Downtown Is Dying

Could not disagree more. The crowds downtown should be proof enough it's not dying. I actually commented to my wife (in March when we were there) I was afraid they were getting to popular - and crowded.

Yep, some of the properties could use some help but a lot of downtown is getting better and casinos are upgrading.

The strip is exhausting, expensive, over priced, crowded, odds SUCK, minimums are ridiculous, and I could do on.

Had a sister-in-law in Vegas recently, told them to check out Fremont Street. They did. Had a blast, had no idea how fun it was and easy to move around to casinos, bands in the street and so on.............. Guess where they are staying from now on.

Anyway, hit the strip, less crowded for us downtowners.

I agree with Mickey's observations but not his conclusions. He sees the same downtown I see, but I just like it a lot more. I enjoy myself more when I feel I'm getting good value, and that's what downtown offers, especially at MSS and El Cortez.

I'm really curious to see what impact Downtown Grand has. Is it going to bring new people downtown? Or is it going to cannibalize existing traffic from other mid-tier downtown joints like Four Queens, Fremont, and The D? Or is it going to fail due the dingy block separating it from Fremont Street? I think that's going to be really interesting.

I couldn't have said it better myself. My girl loves the strip and so I give CET just enough to stay Platinum and keep a 3/4 night offer in the system. But even we stayed at Ceasars in March (after moving from MSS and before moving to Sunset), the majority of our play was at Gold Coast. I'd play paigow at Ballys, harrahs, or Paris, VP at the Rio and an occasional triple double VP (quarters) at Ceasars (hit quad aces with kicker, on my 3rd night there).

When I stayed at MSS for my 1st 2 days I never ventured anywhere except other off strip locals (Orleans, Southpoint etc.). For comps and good VP you cant beat them (downtown and off strip casinos)!

I think downtown is really getting better. Fremont St. is a big party and I really like walking around seeing the people, taking in the sounds and I never get tired of the light show. Don't forget, all this entertainment and very little walking, unlike the Strip, walking a mile from venue to venue. Downtown it's a hop, skip and a jump. The D looks really nice and I always get lucky on the second floor. The Four Queens is a lot of fun too. Coney Dogs are great as are those neat small eating places. I manage to get 2 for 1 coupons for buffets. I enjoy the prime rib buffet at the Fremont.

However, The Plaza still hasn't improved very much, the Island Sushi all you can eat special has too many rules and your orders take too long, they must be stalling cause have a time limit. The Cal and MSS needs to step it up several notches. They're boring hotels, all you can do is gamble and it's too long a wait for the oxtail soup, it should be all hours.

I have been going to Vegas for over 25 years and I still love Down Town. I like to stay at MSS for a few days each visit if possible. I get Wynn offers and like to take them up on it, but after I go off strip. It's not just for the value it makes me feel good, like home so to speak.

I think that that has to do with the fact that the Strip is more geared towards clueless tourists who don't know much about casino play and so for them the casino is an afterthought.

This is as opposed to Downtown and Off-Strip Casinos which cater more to and deal with people who are actually there to play (and want some value for their money).

RecVPPlayer

Some good responses and I thought I would revisit this and expand a little bit on my thinking.

I think the word "dying" was not accurate in my thread title. I guess my opinion is that overall downtown is no better, and in many cases worse, than it was when FSE was designed and implemented in 94-95.

As for the FSE itself, I love how they closed most of the area off to traffic. Love it. The light show, not so much for reasons explained earlier. Now as to the casinos:

Union Plaza. I used to like the place for the most part when Jackie Gaughan owned it. The recent renovations by Tamares did improve the rooms. As for the rest of the casino, personally I don't think it made much difference. I'd rate this place about the same as it was pre FSE.

Las Vegas Club. Empty. Supposedly going to be redesigned by The Amazing Jonathan. I happen to think TAJ is pretty funny but how he'll do designing a casino... I have no idea. Seems like a gimmick that may never end up happening anyway. Under Mel Exber the LVC had nice rooms at a good price, the Great Moments room (very nice), lots of interesting sports memorabilia and "The Worlds Most Liberal 21". Whether that was true or not and how much of an advantage it gave to players was much discussed but it DID bring people in. The LVC was always lively and now it's dead.

Golden Gate - Some remodeling going on and some money being put into the place. That's good I guess. I miss the old deli with the shrimp cocktails and piano player. To each his own I guess.

Pioneer Club - This venerable joint died the same time FSE opened. While there was nothing remarkable about the Pioneer it offered good rates and good gambling. It's a shame that a place with such a prime location sat empty for so long and now sells tshirts. Vegas Vic is not happy.

Horseshoe - I think most will be in agreement that it's been all downhill since Benny died in the late 80's. There was some hope when Harrah's bought the place but it was short lived. It's a shell of it's former self. I actually prefered it before it bought out the Mint. The Mint was one of my favorite gambling joints.

Golden Nugget - Always a very nice place and still is. Love it.

Fremont & Four Queens - Pretty much the same IMO.

The D - I'm sorry but I think this place has some hype being "new" but I'm not digging it. I would not rate it any better than Fitzgeralds, which I found "ok".

El Cortez - Jackie doesn't own it anymore but he still lives there. A low cost classic gambling joint. About the same as pre FSE IMO.

As for the others nearby:

Main Street Station - I used to like to stay there but it seems as if it isn't as nice as it used to be.

California - Never really go there, no opinion.

Lady Luck/The Grand - I liked LL. The new place has real promise. I'm anxious to see it.

So as far as the actual casinos go I'd say downtown has gone in the wrong direction. As for the areas surrounding the casinos, well I guess I don't really venture beyond the casinos when I go/stay downtown. I don't care of there are more places to shop or clubs or whatever.

At one point in time, "The World's Most Liberal 21" was actually a very decent game! At one point in time, the casino advantage on that game was 0.12% (which is actually lower than the Single Deck 3-2 game that El Cortez currently has [which is 0.18%]).

But several years ago, LVC changed the game in a majorly bad way by instead of having all Blackjacks pay 3 To 2 (1.5 To 1), then changing it to having a Suited Blackjack pay 2 To 1 (which is good) but then all other Blackjacks pay Even Money (1 To 1)!

Suited Blackjacks come on average one in four Blackjacks and so this is a very bad development!

And I also noticed on my most recent trip to LV (6/2-6/6/13) that Plaza now had this game as well with these same rules. So people should really refuse to play that game!

RecVPPlayer

That's horrible. The average blackjack table takes in over 15 percent because most players are too dumb/lazy to learn basic strategy. Yet the casinos now feel the need to do crap like this. And it's those same players who won't notice or won't care and keep on playing bad games.

Yes, it's horrible! I really used to like that game because you could do all kinds of things -- Double Down on 3 or 4 cards (including after Splitting Pairs), Resplit Pairs and Aces Indefinitely, get paid for a 5 card total of 21 or less as well as Late Surrender (and also be paid 3 To 2 for Blackjack)!

I had been tipped off about the change when I got my hands on a copy of Stanford Wong's newsletter "Current Blackjack News" (which still comes out and is available for purchase even in Single Issues). And I just found out that the casino advantage with the changes that were made to the game makes the casino advantage be 1.26% (as opposed to the former 0.12% -- that's basically 10 Times worse)!

But people should actually do what they can to check Blackjack rules out because casinos might have changed them at any time. And also people need to be aware of the fact that not only do Blackjack games rules, decks used as well as deck penetration differ from one casino to the next, they actually also can very well differ from one table to the next even within the same casino!

RecVPPlayer