Barred From A Vegas Casino...

Barred From A Vegas Casino... I just got barred from a local casino. I've been barred online several times, but this is the first time I've been barred in a brick & mortar casino. My question is regarding when I was attempting to leave the premises, one of the security guards kept impeding my progress by stepping in front of me when I was trying to leave. I repeatedly asked him if I was being detained, he said "yes, I mean no", and would not let me pass him so I could continue to leave. Eventually, the head of security arrived and told me if I returned to the casino, I would be arrested for trespassing. What are the laws on being allowed to leave casino property and security? I was never physically touched, and of course, I never touched the security guard, however, I was unable to continue forward progress because he stepped in front of me every time I attempted to go around him and move forward to exit the property. Thanks...

Sometimes they are too dumb to know what they can/can't do to you and sometimes they are trying to provoke you to do something/anything they can claim as you being disorderly. You did the right thing by just getting out of there. If they read you the trespass (in NV) then technically you could be arrested the next time for trespassing. It rarely happens. they usually just 86 you again. If you've done nothing illegal and nothing that may be interpreted as illegal - Never sign anything (no matter what they tell you) Never turn over your ID (once they have it they are in control) Never touch anyone or even raise your voice (could be construed as disorderly) Just insist on leaving immediately. If they don't allow it they are falsely imprisoning/unlawfully detaining you. Once they do that they MUST notify a legal authority. If they don't you have a pretty good case on those two points. If you DID do something that may reasonably be assumed as possibly illegal you should cooperate. They only need to have sound reason to believe you may have committed a crime even if you did nothing. If it was reasonable of them to suspect you committed a crime they can detain you so be realistic and look at it from their point of view before you escalate things by resisting.

Real good stuff from Frank. I don't have this legally verified, but I believe that stepping in front of you is the same as touching you. I'd make sure that other customers were watching, keep my hands out to the side, and continue to move forward, even if it meant pressing into the guard. It's also on tape, but better if there are witnesses. Bottom line, if I was not being officially detained, I would make every effort to get out.

[QUOTE=Climate;22119]I just got barred from a local casino. I've been barred online several times, but this is the first time I've been barred in a brick & mortar casino. My question is regarding when I was attempting to leave the premises, one of the security guards kept impeding my progress by stepping in front of me when I was trying to leave. I repeatedly asked him if I was being detained, he said "yes, I mean no", and would not let me pass him so I could continue to leave. Eventually, the head of security arrived and told me if I returned to the casino, I would be arrested for trespassing. What are the laws on being allowed to leave casino property and security? I was never physically touched, and of course, I never touched the security guard, however, I was unable to continue forward progress because he stepped in front of me every time I attempted to go around him and move forward to exit the property. Thanks...[/QUOTE] Why did you get barred? If you feel like it is becoming unlikely they will let you leave, I would also: 1. Make sure to have the NGC on speed dial in my cell phone, and then I would dial the number and make sure the cell screen can be read by overhead cameras and/or the person preventing me from leaving. Of course, in follow up to Frank's thoughts, this move only makes sense if I'm certain that I've not done anything that could even be liberally construed as illegal. I expect that casino management is now aware of the two recent legal matters that were resolved in favor of the players (the Venetian case and the Imperial Palace case), which, objectively, should make management think twice about escalating a non-disorderly situation (of course, this conclusion is based on the assumption that casino managment is competent). 2. Ask for and record in some fashion the name and title of any employee preventing me from leaving (a lot of smart phones have "note pad" apps so you can record things in the phone just as if you are writing on paper). I would also ask for the name of any supervisors presently on duty. I would also ask the person directly in front of me to make sure that all security footage for that particular date and time are preserved, and advise that I will follow up with a request in writing. A lot of times, if you simply act like you know exactly what you are doing, people in positions of power will get nervous, and will act less aggressively themselves.

Thanks for the answers. Yes, I thought the security guard was being overly aggressive, however I didn't want to escalate the situation to the point where it became physical. I'm a pretty big guy, so these guys don't intimidate me, but I understand physicality has no place here. I did remind the head of security that the Venetian just had a $200,000 against them. I was playing bj at the time I was barred. I had beaten these guys consistently over a month. They said I had an "unfair advantage". I said "what is that, a brain?".

[QUOTE=Climate;22146]Thanks for the answers. Yes, I thought the security guard was being overly aggressive, however I didn't want to escalate the situation to the point where it became physical. I'm a pretty big guy, so these guys don't intimidate me, but I understand physicality has no place here. I did remind the head of security that the Venetian just had a $200,000 against them. I was playing bj at the time I was barred. I had beaten these guys consistently over a month. They said I had an "unfair advantage". I said "what is that, a brain?".[/QUOTE] Teddy Atlas would have told you to show them your "physicality". You my friend are the only other person I've ever heard use that word.

Palms Security Guards I have had almost the same exact problem at the Palms where they came up to me and another customer. We were both playing video poker and they asked us both for ID stating they were looking for someone. That someone was ME. I told them I had no ID on me the other player "A Square" must have pulled every piece of paper and ID he had on him and had it spread all across his machine. They were not even looking at his numerous ID's they wanted mine. But I knew I didnt have to supply them with it. When the told me that if I had no ID on my person I could not be playing in their casino. This is not true you do not need ID to be playing if you are without a doubt beyond 21 yrs old. So when they told me that I could not be gaming there with no ID I used that as my excuse to leave the Palms. My exit path was blocked by a burly security guard and his partner who was behind me. When I tried to go in a different direction and leave through a different door he once again blocked my exit. I knew that this was all on tape so I made sure i made no attempt to use any force in my attempt to exit. He actually on my 3rd attempt to walk around him he shoved me in the chest.At this point his partner told him and I quote "You put your hands on him just let him go now" I quickly moved past him an out the door. They followed me out to Flamingo Road. I called Bob Nersesian a local attorney here in town the following morning and he fired off a letter to the Palms informing them of their security guards aggressive behavior. The Palms sent a letter back to Bob stating that the were aware of the problem concerning me and were looking into it, and even used my name in their response even though Bob referred to me as a client of his that was accosted. So they knew who I was and their request for my ID was all a farce to try to detain me for no reason, as I was not in vioation of any laws other than being a card counter.Last time I checked it is STILL LEGAL to count cards. Its actions like these by $10 per hour hired "fake cops" that put the casinos in legal snafu's

This is joep's first post on the board, but don't be suspicious. I asked him in to get involved in this thread. He's one of the most knowledgeable people I know on this subject. He also runs our free board on blackjack called the House of Pane.

Oh, glad to have you aboard, then. Really is an All-Star team of sorts here. I am hoping to have something settled here: I worked in a Stateline casino in the late '90s, and one of the things they drilled into our head is that everyone is required to have ID when they are in a casino, no matter how old they look. One of three conclusions comes to mind: Casinos misinform their employees The law has changed in 10 years My memory don't work so good Can someone who is 21+ but without an ID legally be in a casino? What if you hit a W-2G-level jackpot and you have no slot card? I'm playing devil's advocate here, but this would be a nice thing to know. This whole thread, BTW, rules. As the bankroll grows, so does my chance of an incident.

Casino's misinform their employees. You would be SHOCKED at how many casino employees in managerial positions aren't aware of gaming law and patrons rights. I have to put up with the ID crap all of the time because I look younger than I am. I could fill a book with the ignorant, mindless crap I hear from casino employees regarding gaming law. The casinos train their employees that ID is required because they don't want to face a fine for allowing underage gambling, or have reporting issues with the IRS.