Do you know your blackjack Basic Strategy DOWN COLD?

If you're doubling A8 versus dealer's 6, then you're playing a H17 game, presumably 6 decks.   You'd also double A7 versus the dealer's 2.

According to the Don Schlesinger Strategy Card, the "Double Deck H17 DAS," that I bought from LVA, you double A8 vs. dealer 6 on a double deck games as well.

Edited on Jan 24, 2025 4:15am
Originally posted by: MaxFlavor

According to the Don Schlesinger Strategy Card, the "Double Deck H17 DAS," that I bought from LVA, you double A8 vs. dealer 6 on a double deck games as well.


Yeah, that particular variation is kind of odd in that while the dealer hitting soft 17 is in most cases quite bad for you, it's good in some soft doubling situations, as it can turn a sure defeat (you draw a lousy hand; the dealer has A6; you lose) into a prayer of winning (the dealer draws and ultimately busts).

 

I'm a little stale on the single deck variations (such as hit 10-2 but not other hard 12s vs. a 4), because it's been so long since I've seen a halfway decent single deck game. There's still some decent double deck out there, though.

Kevin, read Max's comment again.  Unless I'm reading it wrong, Max said his strategy card reads:

"Double A8 vs dealer 6 on a double deck game". 

 

I can imagine other players groaning (and maybe the dealer and myself as well) at passing up a H19. Check it out please, Kevin.  Thanks.

 

Candy

Edited on Jan 25, 2025 4:09am

Originally posted by: O2bnVegas

Kevin, read Max's comment again.  Unless I'm reading it wrong, Max said his strategy card reads:

"Double A8 vs dealer 6 on a double deck game". 

 

I can imagine other players groaning (and maybe the dealer and myself as well) at passing up a H19. Check it out please, Kevin.  Thanks.

 

Candy


His comment was that in addition to doubling on a soft 19 vs. a 6 in a single deck game, as I stated in my OP, you do that in a double deck game as well, IF the dealer hits a soft 17. In fact, you do that in any multi-deck game where the dealer hits soft 17, which is pretty much any game you see these days.

 

This is one of a few basic strategy variations that depend on whether the dealer hits soft 17 or not. There are also a few that depend on whether you're playing single- or multi-deck.

 

One thing you have to do when playing good basic strategy is be prepared for player and dealer reactions when you do something they think is "wrong." Hitting a soft 18 vs a 10 is a good example ("But you have 18!!"). And we've all seen when third base takes three or four hits (correctly) and busts, and now the dealer makes a hand. Frowning. Booing. Gunfire.

 

You have to play blackjack just like many other of life's endeavors, which is to be aware that many people are idiots and not let how they act and react affect you.

Oh I love the "experts" at tables commenting on other players decisions.  I never comment on someone elses play, even if it's obviously wrong.  And don't get made if they "take the dealers bust card".  But yes, often time the mathematically right play may not seem to make sense to someone who doesn't know basic strategy and when one of these jerks comments on my play it takes some willpower not to respond.  If they do it more than once I'll say something like "you play your hands and I'll play mine".   

Originally posted by: VegasVic

Oh I love the "experts" at tables commenting on other players decisions.  I never comment on someone elses play, even if it's obviously wrong.  And don't get made if they "take the dealers bust card".  But yes, often time the mathematically right play may not seem to make sense to someone who doesn't know basic strategy and when one of these jerks comments on my play it takes some willpower not to respond.  If they do it more than once I'll say something like "you play your hands and I'll play mine".   


I did that the first seventeen thousand times someone made a derisive comment about my play. Then I reached Toxic Lifedose, which in terms of harmful radiation, is the maximum amount you can absorb over the course of your lifetime before any additional radiation, even in small doses, will cause significant harm. There is a Toxic Lifedose for other people's stupidity; there is also a Toxic Lifedose for others' assholery. Thus, there is a combined Toxic Lifedose for others' stupid assholery.

 

Therefore, now I respond, to wit:

 

"I made the proper play for my hand and the dealer's upcard. The fact that you're objecting means that you don't know the proper way to play this game, though I'm sure you think you're a genius and your years of losing have all been due to bad luck."

 

and, if the point doesn't sink in:

 

"On the previous hand, you had a hard 15 against the dealer's 10 and you stood. That's the wrong play. Hard 15 is a bad hand no matter what, but not hitting against a 10 is like a batter with two strikes knowing the next pitch is also a strike but not swinging. It's giving up. It's being a pussy. And it's being a fool. So please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't do."

 

What can I say? Toxic Lifedose.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Yeah, that particular variation is kind of odd in that while the dealer hitting soft 17 is in most cases quite bad for you, it's good in some soft doubling situations, as it can turn a sure defeat (you draw a lousy hand; the dealer has A6; you lose) into a prayer of winning (the dealer draws and ultimately busts).

 

I'm a little stale on the single deck variations (such as hit 10-2 but not other hard 12s vs. a 4), because it's been so long since I've seen a halfway decent single deck game. There's still some decent double deck out there, though.


Wondering where there is a "decent double-deck game?"   I just returned from Vegas, and Penetration in doubledeck wasas low as 50% at Venetian, Orleans, Southpoint, Fountainbleu, and a couple other places I visited, and barely 60% at most others (Mandalay, Virgin, Rio).  AND, many of them only pay 6/5 on BJ.

The game in Vegas is nothing short of onerous.

Originally posted by: Jan Person

Wondering where there is a "decent double-deck game?"   I just returned from Vegas, and Penetration in doubledeck wasas low as 50% at Venetian, Orleans, Southpoint, Fountainbleu, and a couple other places I visited, and barely 60% at most others (Mandalay, Virgin, Rio).  AND, many of them only pay 6/5 on BJ.

The game in Vegas is nothing short of onerous.


Since it is indeed hard to find a double deck game with more than 50% penetration, I don't use that criterion to determine whether such a game is playable; after all, there are several factors that could make the game even worse, such as doubling restrictions and other rules. The elephant-sized rule variation is 6:5 instead of 3:2, and as you say, many double deck games in Vegas are 6:5. So if I find a 3:2 double deck game with decent rules, I'm pretty happy even if the penetration is lousy--particularly if the minimum is $10 or $15, not $25.

 

People, counters or not, shouldn't be kerfuffled by poor penetration anyway. It benefits the recreational player, because the constant shuffling slows the game down--always a positive. For the counter, yes, it cuts down on those opportunities when the deck goes positive (because it might get shuffled away), but it's an absolute myth that poor penetration makes a game not worth playing (shoe or double deck). It just means that you'll be playing a higher proportion of your hands in a neutral count (as in, off the top). The count will still go positive, just not to as much of an extreme and for not as long as if the deck/shoe was dealt deeper. It'll take longer to win, and the variance (which you actually want, as a counter) won't be as high.

 

And as I'm sure you're aware, bet spread--what is tolerated--is as important as penetration. You could beat a 25% penetration game if a 1-8 unit spread was allowed. So don't throw in the towel just yet. Vegas, as a gambling destination, sucks worse and worse these days, but its one positive aspect is that there are so many places to play. Some of them will always be decent opportunities. 

Double A8 vs 5 or 6 if the true count is +1 or greater. 

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