Downtown Grand Craps...

I was at the Downtown Grand casino with a couple of friends this past week and played at their $5 craps table.  The first two days everything was fine; a good social group at the table and the dealers were very friendly.  However, on our third day session I encountered a big problem.  I usually have a certain way to "set the dice" before I throw.  I have been doing this for several years and it takes me no longer than 5 seconds to set and throw.  The first two days I set and threw the dice and not a complaint from the dealers.  On the third day I set the dice and hit the same number three times in a row.  The 'stick' then said "Sir, we have an eight second rule".  I was surprised at the comment as I have been playing craps for 20 years and have never had a complaint about my throws.  I made a my point, threw several sixes and eights before sevening out.  The next time when it was my turn to throw the dice the female boxman rudely told me again about their eight second rule.  I gave her an inquisitive look and she replied, "You give me another 'dirty' look and I will make you pass the dice".  Wow, I was flabbergasted; I could not believe that I was being treated so rudely.  I immediately picked up the dice and threw them sharply down the table and hit my point.  I looked at her and said, " Is that better"?  Now I was the one that received the 'dirty' look.  After I sevened out my three friends and I colored up and left the table; without leaving the dealers any tips...something that I never do, win or lose.  

I never ever came close to exceeding eight seconds in setting and throwing the dice.  I know my setting really doesn't have an influence on what numbers I throw, but it has become a 'ritual' with me and up until now it never has been a problem.  I don't know what the boxman's problem was and that it took three days before they decided to enforce their rule, but it will be a long time if ever I step into their casino.  I complained at the cashiers cage and told them " The management knows how to run a nice hotel operation, but they haven't a clue about running a casino".  

 BIGLAR73 - I believe that the treatment you experienced is just one of the things casinos do in order to throw you off of your dice throwing as they try to get into your head. Casinos don't mind one losing, but if you are winning they will resort to such measures, which has happened to me and others. Their objective is to have you quit and leave. The casinos don't care if you leave for they know that someone else will take the dice.

What David Miller said is utter nonsense. The casino doesn't care if you win. They want you to PLAY, at which point they've already won. When you bet $100 on the Pass line, they've just made $1.41. Regardless of the result.

A LOT of people have trouble with the above concept--and that includes dealers and supervisors. That said...wouldn't they rather you (or anyone else) won than lost? 

So here's what was happening. There are people known as "dice setters" who supposedly can throw the dice to increase the probability of a seven (on the comeout) or decrease it (when a point is established). This involves "setting" the dice as well as throwing them a certain way.

The jury is still out as to whether this actually works. However, paranoid casino management often issues instructions to dealers to stop people from setting the dice. You'll attract more scrutiny if you set the dice and then make a few points. Now, obviously, that alone doesn't mean jack shit--you're not scamming the casino just because you make a few points. And you'd think casino personnel would know that.

Furthermore, the eight second rule is stupid. What happens after eight seconds? The dice turn into chickens? 

So what's probably happening is that management has sternly told the pit crews to clamp down on anyone who shoots the dice and, God forbid, wins--and they don't like it any more than you do. So everyone gets testy.

One important rule: when you feel you've been treated badly, don't bother complaining to the foot soldiers. It's not really their fault (usually), and they can't do anything to fix it anyway. Demand to see a manager, and then immediately demand to see HIS boss. You'll get satisfaction eventually, as at some point up the ladder, you'll find someone who understands that chasing away customers is bad business.

All of the above said, I would just throw the goddamn dice the way they want you to. Then go to some other casino.

Side note:  on my way out of the casino I ran to Anthony Curtis and explained what just happened. He shook his head in disbelief 

The banking wall of the craps table is designed specifically to jumble the dice upon impact.   ThAts why dice setting is a myth.   And that's why the dealers demand you hit the wall with both dice.    

I wasn't there so I won't judge.   Table comps are computed by amount of time you spend at the table so I understand the desire not to drag out the game.    But the time the dealers spend paying bets is likely 10x longer than your time setting the dice.   So it seems pretty petty on their part.

Sorry for your experience. That really sucks. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon. I had a nearly identical situation in Puerto Rico (dice setting was fine for two days, then it wasn't). When the box told me to just pick up the dice and throw, I took my non-contract bets down, fired the dice as hard as I could against the table wall and left after I sevened out without toking the crew. 

At a couple of Vegas casinos, I've had boxmen tell me to hurry my throws. (Like you, my setting takes a maximum of five seconds, unlike shooters who want to shake the dice in their hand.) My reaction is the same. Color up as soon as the point is over and tell the dealers their box just cost them tips. 

Just because we don't believe in the voodoo of dice-setting doesn't mean the casinos don't. 

 The last time I shot craps at Silverton I had this happen. I was given the dice for the first time, threw them for a point of 5. As I was setting them, I was berated by one of the supervisors to throw the dice or they would be passed to the next person. Everyone around the table stood there in shock, their mouths open and glaring at this moron. I took my time, threw the dice, hit my point of 5, and the table erupted at my making my point. I then ended my short roll and left. I have not been back to Silverton since then. 

Thanks for the info on the craps tables. We are planning to stop by there next trip and will give an update if we play.  The Downtown Grand has been off our list the last 2 years because the tables were usually closed and the bar keeps getting crappier.  Bad games and the drinks in plastic cups have been terrible.  On a positive note the craps table at Ellis Island has been alot of fun the last two trips.  It's a long table with a mix of good shooters and newbies making lots of mistakes.  Dice Etiquette .Dealers were very patient and the game moves pretty slow, but a fun way to make a few dollars and have some fun.