Originally posted by: MaxFlavor
I forgot to mention in my post, at the casino I go to, once you've run the free play through, you start earning points without needing to cash out and then putting money in.
It's the same where I play. I don't know how many hands it was, but I hit my first royal in 27 years when I was in Mesquite in May. I though it was only a flush until I looked at it a second time.
Originally posted by: O2bnVegas
My point was only to be aware that whether you enter your Players Club code and download Free Play at the beginning, middle, or end of your session, just know that during that time of Free Play play you are earning NO players club points, whether using it in VP or SLOTS. For most this is minimal for any big downside or loss of points, tier score building, etc., since those take a lot of points to be of benefit/raise the tier score, etc. It doesn't change how much you win whether playing on your money or on Free Play. That's all.
In a sense, though, regarding how much does Free Play affect the casino's bottom line, since no comp points are earned while playing on FP, that could be a factor. No points earned, no comps earned, and even for that small duration of time, a zillion players losing that amount of potential comps should be relevant.
Candy
Not really, since the whole purpose of free play offers is to get people into the casino who wouldn't have gone there otherwise. The only "gain" for the casino from no-comp free play is if a free play recipient a) would have played there anyway AND b) will play the same total amount as he would have without the free play.
Also, consider the value of most casino comps: about 0.1% of your total action. To put it another way, one dollar for every thousand you play. Given that the casino is garnering anywhere from 0.5% to 4% (five to forty times what they give back in comps), the question of comps or no comps is almost trivial for them.
Of course, that does beg the question of why, then, don't they offer MUCH more generous comps, but that's a topic for another time.
Originally posted by: MaxFlavor
I agree, thanks for the response.
I set my advantage at .7%, kind of a random pick on my part, Bob Dancer recently wrote the minimum he'll play at is 100.3%. So I settled on 100.7% to run a bit more money through the machine.
That used to be my baseline, back when there was lots of FPDW (100.76%) and FPJW (100.65%). I added comps and offers to that baseline to calculate total return, but it was nice to know that I was making about $7 an hour even if the casino gave me nothing, nothing, nothing (which increasingly happened, happened, happened as the casinos started to ostracize good players).
Originally posted by: O2bnVegas
My point was only to be aware that whether you enter your Players Club code and download Free Play at the beginning, middle, or end of your session, just know that during that time of Free Play play you are earning NO players club points, whether using it in VP or SLOTS. For most this is minimal for any big downside or loss of points, tier score building, etc., since those take a lot of points to be of benefit/raise the tier score, etc. It doesn't change how much you win whether playing on your money or on Free Play. That's all.
In a sense, though, regarding how much does Free Play affect the casino's bottom line, since no comp points are earned while playing on FP, that could be a factor. No points earned, no comps earned, and even for that small duration of time, a zillion players losing that amount of potential comps should be relevant.
Candy
Thanks, I understand your point!
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis
Not really, since the whole purpose of free play offers is to get people into the casino who wouldn't have gone there otherwise.
I would disagree, with this statement, I think that free play offers are designed to build loyalty. My wife and I have become "friends" with a couple of other VP players, I don't think they are AP players, but I could be wrong. One is one tier higher than us and the other one is two tiers higher (5-tier system). They get more "show up" free play than us, and about the same on the "free play game" the casino offers.
Again, I'm not in Vegas.
Originally posted by: MaxFlavor
I would disagree, with this statement, I think that free play offers are designed to build loyalty. My wife and I have become "friends" with a couple of other VP players, I don't think they are AP players, but I could be wrong. One is one tier higher than us and the other one is two tiers higher (5-tier system). They get more "show up" free play than us, and about the same on the "free play game" the casino offers.
Again, I'm not in Vegas.
It's just semantics. If you exhibit "loyalty," that means that when you're choosing to gamble, you're doing it at the same casino as before--also, you're gambling (there) instead of playing golf, going to the movies, or attending the finals of the National Nun-Beating Championships. "Loyalty," to them, means, "Our place is where you go to to gamble/to have fun."
Now, of course, if you do live in a multi-casino market, you could foil the "loyalty" concept by swinging by and only playing long enough to cash in your free play. Might ruin future offers, though.
And since "loyalty" is a word oft bandied about when discussing a particular piece of orange excrement, one should consider what the word means and whether it applies in this situation at all. If I go to the cheapest gas station, or shop at the grocery store where there are good coupons, I don't feel "loyal" to those places at all. I would not vote for them, babysit their children, or donate them a kidney.
So I prefer "incentive."
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis
It's just semantics. If you exhibit "loyalty," that means that when you're choosing to gamble, you're doing it at the same casino as before--also, you're gambling (there) instead of playing golf, going to the movies, or attending the finals of the National Nun-Beating Championships. "Loyalty," to them, means, "Our place is where you go to to gamble/to have fun."
Now, of course, if you do live in a multi-casino market, you could foil the "loyalty" concept by swinging by and only playing long enough to cash in your free play. Might ruin future offers, though.
Many businesses have loyalty programs from fast food to REI, they reward their more frequent customers so they keep choosing them more often over the competition. I live in a multi-casino market but I've only found one place that can be considered +EV with their promotions, and I found that the more I play there the better my offers have been.
Your statement about gambling instead of other activities is bizarre, on +EV days we may gamble, and on different days we may use our AMC A-List membership to see a movie, the last two weeks in May we were in Japan. Other times we'll take our off-road teardrop camper someplace and fish. Variety is interesting.
Originally posted by: MaxFlavor
Many businesses have loyalty programs from fast food to REI, they reward their more frequent customers so they keep choosing them more often over the competition. I live in a multi-casino market but I've only found one place that can be considered +EV with their promotions, and I found that the more I play there the better my offers have been.
Your statement about gambling instead of other activities is bizarre, on +EV days we may gamble, and on different days we may use our AMC A-List membership to see a movie, the last two weeks in May we were in Japan. Other times we'll take our off-road teardrop camper someplace and fish. Variety is interesting.
Since you are writing about loyalty programs, I noticed that some casinos in Black Hawk/Central City offer gas discounts. Are they worthwhile or should I just fill-up in Dillon on my way home and use my City Market discount?
Originally posted by: Robert Davis
Since you are writing about loyalty programs, I noticed that some casinos in Black Hawk/Central City offer gas discounts. Are they worthwhile or should I just fill-up in Dillon on my way home and use my City Market discount?
Grand Z owns a convenience store/gas station about 10 minutes east of Black Hawk, they also own two other casinos, Dragon Tiger in Central City and Z Casino in Black Hawk. They're the only ones that I know of that offer a gas discount and it's at their station. I've never used it, but when I pass their gas station it's about $1/gallon higher than in my neighborhood. I would guess it's not worthwhile and fill up in Dillon.
Originally posted by: MaxFlavor
Many businesses have loyalty programs from fast food to REI, they reward their more frequent customers so they keep choosing them more often over the competition. I live in a multi-casino market but I've only found one place that can be considered +EV with their promotions, and I found that the more I play there the better my offers have been.
Your statement about gambling instead of other activities is bizarre, on +EV days we may gamble, and on different days we may use our AMC A-List membership to see a movie, the last two weeks in May we were in Japan. Other times we'll take our off-road teardrop camper someplace and fish. Variety is interesting.
Well, sure, but you live in an area where there's plenty of other stuff to do. When I lived in Vegas several years ago, I knew many people who were continually lured back to their "favorite" casinos by free play or other offers--and they'd go there in lieu of other activities. With some folks, it got out of hand, as in, "I know today is my daughter's wedding, but I have $20 free play at the Golden Commode "
The loyalty programs work particularly well in Vegas because there's a relative dearth of other stuff to do. "Let's go for a hike instead.' "Are you kidding, it's 112 degrees outside." Plus, Vegas has a severely stunted cultural/non-casino entertainment scene.
I think that if I lived where you do, I might never set foot in a casino at all. Too much other fun stuff to do.
