Riviera $1000 loss rebate

Nonsense. Once again I feel compelled to ask you a couple questions. 1) As a player, how do you "determine" the hold % for a particular casino or individual slot machine? I am not talking about video poker since I am well aware of how to determine those numbers. 2) At what point (hold %) do you consider a game prohibitive?

The monster you refer is no where near $500 EV. However, they hope to have people think it is. Funny no one has given any success stories playing this sucker. I would guess the EV at $15 or so. That may be a little high, but it only applies if you stop your losses at around $50.

If the machines you are allowed to play are holding 10% or more, with very little chance of getting a substatial hit to put you ahead, then that means there will be very few winners.
I know personally that the machines they used to put you on for their free play promotion
were holding probably 99%. No, I can't determine the hold percentage but I can determine the intent of the casino in offering this apparent monster?, as it's been referred to. I think I agree with that, but with the opposite meaning.

I don't know the current EV, the rules have changed (been downgraded). However, it was certainly over $500 when the promotion started. Michael Shackleford spoke in detail about how good this promotion was on Gambling With an Edge a few weeks ago. There is a long thread about this topic on his web site with several examples of people profiting thousands. This is also consistent with what Anthony Curtis wrote in the last LVA issue.

But hey, what do Michael Shackleford and Anthony Curtis know? lol

Anyone doing this should certainly check the current rules at the slot club beforehand, but even if you have to run the FP through 75% return slots, it's still likely a positive play.

jm - I respect your opinion, but you are way off base on this one.

This promo has nothing to do with the free play machines you speak of. Those (free play, 40/20, etc) machines are notoriously tight and aren't even available for regular play because they don't meet the legal minimun payback numbers.

If you honestly believe this promotion has an EV of $15 or less, you need to spend some time learning math and statistics.

Your 10% hold cutoff point is way off for this promo, but even if it wasn't...unless you were playing a wide-area progressive, which almost certainly wouldn't qualify for this play because of contractual obligations, you would be hard pressed to find a $1 machine that holds 90% or more on the strip.

Finally, the intent of the Riv is quite obvious...to get new players in the door and signed up for the players' club. They are looking to build their customer base, and are willing to risk losing money in the short term to do so. They will use the information they gain from this promotion to keep good players (those who have no clue) coming back. Those players will eventually make up for any losses the casino incurrs during the promo. As a player, you need to be able to look objectively at a promotion and decide if it offers positive EV. And this one offers positive EV in spades.

You asked how I can possibly know a machine's hold percentage, so how am I supposed to identify a $1 machine that holds more than 10 percent? And why wouldn't the Riviera set all the $1 machines at 85% hold until the promotion is over? I would like to hear from someone how much got held on the first $500 of free play reimbursement. No great wins reported on here so far. Where are the people who have won many thousands? And, that being the case, why even worry about free play reimbursement-just play your own money and clean house. I was being silly on my earlier estimates, but the $500 EV claim is just ridiculous. Whatever the true EV is, it is based on playing the best returning machines which we have said is indeterminable. You still aren't sure what machines will be eligible for the rest of the free play, and they seem to be dwindling by the day. And don't forget, any positive EV is surely contingent on your being given all the free play promised.

I checked the Riviera's website. The promotion is no longer listed. I assume they stopped it. Anybody know otherwise let me know.

What? I just checked promos on their website & it's there.
Am i reading old (cached) web info or something?
Riv Promotions

Nono.. UR Reading The right Info..

Its still on..

jm - I disagree that "any positive EV is surely contingent on your being given all the free play promised." There is EV here even with the 50% next day free play, although obviously not as much as with the whole thing. There are a couple of ways to make the best of this promotion, depending on which machines are eligible, if slot club points accumulate during the initial and free play, free drinks and other comps when playing, etc. There are ways to blow it as well. I am not suggesting one should walk into the Riv with $1000 expecting to walk out a millionaire. Likewise, I would not advise someone to spend money on this promo that they wouldn't otherwise gamble with. But I stand by my opinion that this is a strong play if a person does his/her homework.

And, not to take the easy way out, but as Grasp pointed out...Both Michael Shackleford and Anthony Curtis have discussed the strong play here. If that doesn't make you at least pause and reconsider, there is nothing I can say that will make you do so.