South Point's June promo

I do as well.  Nothing to write home about, considering I go there 5-6x a year, but better than just about any other casino I want to stay at.  

I asked flat-out in March at slot booth if there anything in March and they said "only for locals this month."  

My slot host(ess) there has been downright mercurial. Over the last 20+ years, I've almost exclusively played their best .25 VP at a rate of $6-8K/day. Therefore, you might assume that my evaluated worth to them has been relatively constant. Not so! I generally ask if I can extend my stay from the two or three comped nights I get to a total of six or seven nights and asked what rate I could get for the additional nights, and have been told, in no particular order and with no discernible pattern:

1. Full rack rate.

2. Casino rate.

3. Resort fee waived.

4. Comps based on action (which I've usually received OK).

5. Upfront comps.

The bizarre thing is, I might ask for #4 and get met with a frosty reception and an unmistakable "you're asking for too much" attitude. Next trip, I might ask for casino rate and be breezily offered a full comp. There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's like trying to deal with a schizophrenic. And that definitely includes their unpredictable attitudes.

Also, while it's always been a coin flip between "Come on down!!" and "Feh!", I've gotten more of the latter lately.

No doubt; they are very tough to read.  I usually don't even venture in to the office even to ask for any extras once I'm there.  Plus they have recently just turned over half the staff.  I believe they look at their comps based on about a 12 month running composite of play (and results) for out of towners but I could be wrong.  One host kind of told me that once that isn't there anymore.  

Sometimes I'll get 2 or 3 or 4 nights right up front when I email them.  (I seldom stay more than 4 nights anyway)  If they say 3 and casino rate for 4th, honestly, I don't even ask about the 4th night unless I've had a really bad trip. (doesn't happen all that much really)  I just try to be really polite to them and not bug them much.  I really don't play that much more than you Kevin either; Once in a while I may go $15K per day for the trip but that is maybe 1 in 5 trips I'd estimate.  (really just $.50 vp single or 3/5 play quarters is only difference)  I might mask it a little bit better by playing some BP STP games but I'm sure they know the payback on those as well.  Plus I play way more poker there than I ever used to.  I just am more entertained with poker versus VP after 15 years of VP.  But at the same time, I feel I want to keep up the comp as well with VP.  It is really whatever you enjoy more and that has changed for me over the years.  I was heavy into BJ in my early 20s-30s; now I can't stand it the and constant shuffling as I did learn how to count cards under about 3 counting methods and I'd side count 5s and Aces at the same time. (now the game makes my stomach sick after about 20 minutes even though counting is like riding a bike; you never forget.) But the smokers at the table drive me nuts and then they are all completely superstitious as well.  And the game sucks now as well.  50% penetration at best on double deck or single deck if you are lucky.  Then the switch to VP mainly in mid 30s-mid 40s.  Last 7-8 years I just enjoy watching games, relaxing, having some beverages and playing 4/8 limit poker, tourneys there or 1/2 no limit.  (plus no smokers in there)  And VP is almost dead unless you are just playing to stay around even and enjoy the comps if you can get them. (and nothing wrong with that either)  

It is all just a very cheap frugal vacation now to me and my wife is fine with it because she knows in the long run I'm around even in VP since 2012 and I win at poker.  I bank my points and spend it when I take the wife and family out there to splurge.  I eat primarily on poker points on that card.  From 2002-2012 I was up $50K in VP out there and only going 3-4x a year.  I bludgeoned places like the Palms where I could play $1 10/7 DB (100.17) bar top even and get .25% club back and use 2-3X coupons or swipes making it .75%.  So basically playing at 101% and getting free gifts and some drawing entries.  Even Stations had some good promos.  Play $100K thru and get $1150 back in free play and they still had the .3 slot club then and sometimes I could do big chunk of that $100K on 2x days at .6%.  (do the math on that one)  All that is dead now.  Boyd is ridiculous as well documented.  I have found some OK plays out in Henderson but I really don't have a big desire to stay at those places even if they have hotels so I don't play there much.  

Gaughan is the smartest guy out there.  He will give the customer a fighting chance.  Knows most will not play these game under optimum strategy.  So casino still has a small edge even with their promotions.  And they continue to pack a huge gaming area and make profits on sheer volume.  My hat goes off to him.  It is the best place out there and if you catch a good promo for out of towners, even a little better.  Nothing fabulous but still fun and it draws the locals and out of staters in.  An actual good business model.....imagine that!  

That's all I got but I do appreciate your and Don's updates as they are very informative.  Hopefully you take a little away from this even though a lot of it is ancient history and never coming back.  

 I do believe that during the past 20 years casinos have realized that those VP players who exclusively play only the best .25 VP are not adding much to the bottom line, which is where the casinos go and check when determining what comps a person is entitled to get. My personal take is that when I am winning, the comps offered are of less value, and whenever I am not winning, the comps increase. That is the model that casinos seem to utilize when determining comps. I personally play mostly $1 VP and have no problem with getting comps, whether offered via e-mail or from actual mailings - I also have had no problem calling and getting comped rooms. Customer loyalty only goes so far with casinos, and they are willing to give more to those who gamble at higher denominations. Once one understands these facts, the comping of players for their play makes sense. Bottom line seems to be - if one gambles at higher limits, whether table games or VP, the casinos want your play - and if one does not gamble at higher limits, well, the casinos do not give much value to your play, especially because they know that others are willing to gamble for higher stakes and the casinos prefer to give these players comps. One may not like the way it works, but that is the structure the casinos have decided to utilize when determining comps.

It's not just the amount you gamble--it's the amount you're expected to lose, aka "theo." Some places, even heavy action won't get you much (or anything at all) if it's on good VP. Other places, that same action, on similar games, will get you decent offers/comps.

It's silly, when you think of it, for any casino to comp based on volume of play (without factoring in how much you figure to lose), or to comp based on recent wins and losses (if they're being objective, they shouldn't care whether you win or lose). The only thing that matters, and should matter, is theo.

Now, as far as South Point in particular goes, I've definitely received better--much better--offers after a trip where I've gotten stomped than after a trip where I've hit a royal or two and come out ahead. And that's irrational, since I generally give them the same amount of daily action on the same games.

Just for the sake of contrast, back in the day, when I actually set foot in CET properties, I noticed that they would calculate your theo to a fare-thee-well and comp you EXACTLY 20 percent of that. Didn't matter if you'd smooshed them or they'd smooshed you last time around. Their metrics were obviously very sophisticated and hard-nosed.

That South Point isn't as objective about comps suggests that there's a lot of personal input in the process, as in, you're evaluated as a player subjectively, not objectively (by your host, presumably). This fits in with the wild gyrations in how I've been treated by them over the years despite having been basically the same type of player all along.

I'd agree with all of that.  I've gotten better comps and more nights right after a "stomped-trip."  Then when I do the exact same play (thru) for two very marginal win trips, I'm down to 2 nights M-Th.  Makes no sense.  It is definitely a combination of theo and the very latest results because I pretty much go every 2-3 months like clockwork.  

When Southpoint first opened, I was having extremely poor luck there.  I'd tell them, can't you guys just go look at my play and results for the last two years and make a decision on why my comps are so low?  They looked at me like I was asking them to fly to the moon with that request.  

 The ONE thing some do not consider is that the people who work in the host office have ever changing guidelines to adhere to, which are things they can not control. They do what they are allowed to do, otherwise they could lose their job. I have been personally told that "things have changed" concerning the awarding of comps. Blaming or getting upset with these people over something they do not control is, at best, non productive.

Except if you get a chain of events like good offer- bad offer- good offer for the same play over a short period of time, that suggests that whatever guidelines do exist either aren't very rigid or aren't being adhered to. Jerry and I have both noted that the quality of our offers is correlated with our most recent results, which conforms with NO casino's guidelines even if it aligns with their actual practices. What sane casino punishes you for winning?

Therefore, I can't help but conclude that SP hosts have had a great deal of latitude (which may be less now). If they didn't, my offers would have been more logical/consistent.

Example: Two trips early 2018. Each trip, stayed five nights Sun-Thurs. Trips were about nine weeks apart. Gave them $35,000 action each trip. 

Trip 1: won $1100. Subsequent offer: $10 free play and three nights casino rate.

Trip 2: lost $500. Subsequent offer: $50 free play and three free nights.

       Your "conclusion" may be right, or may be wrong. An easy way to find out may be to speak to the hosts and ask them about your personal allocation of comps and why they seem to differ from one stay to another. I did ask, and was informed about my status. One thing I know for certain, as Jean Scott has alluded to in her books, the casino comping policies are constantly being redefined. 

Don't know why you put "conclusion" in quotation marks, but the only conclusion I can draw is that if there has been a policy, it hasn't been consistently applied. My trips where I've played at SP over the last 10+ years and my action have been very consistent but my offers have been anything but.

And yes, of course, I've asked about this. I've been specific, as in "will $8K a day generate or cover a room comp?" I've gotten mostly vague answers, like "we'll look at your play." And I've never gotten an answer other than "it depends" re future mailers.

This may be a moot discussion, as they've completely stiffed me since my two most recent trips. They wouldn't even give me casino rate when I called and asked.