I'm looking for as much feedback as possible from those who frequent Vegas, so I figured it should go in this forum.
Survey on bankrolls (Recreational, Semi-Professional, Professional)
Going into casinos, I see people from all walks of life playing all types of games, most staying at their game of choice for some time and others jumping from one to another. I look and see extraverts and introverts; I interpret facial expressions and body language from joy to anger, studious to almost trance like. Over the years I've always wondered how serious people are with their bankrolls.
1) Based on my definitions of bankrolls, which of these would best describe your bankroll and type of player you are?
A) ENTERTAINMENT BANKROLL: one that is used for strictly enjoyment and not caring which game is chosen, whether favorable or unfavorable to the player, even if played with correct strategies---sort of like your accommodations expense, it's a part of the expected cost of the trip. If lost, it's no big deal.
B) RECREATIONAL BANKROLL: one used for enjoyment as well but somewhat disciplined on your selection of games---you tend to chose games that are slightly more favorable to the player, but occasionally playing the less favorable.
C) SERIOUS RECREATIONAL BANKROLL: one for enjoyment but very disciplined on your game selections. Your games of choice revolve around games that have been proven that they can be beaten with correct strategies and proper bankroll management and you play them that way. BJ, Poker, VP would fall into this category, and all other games would not. Rarely would you play other games, and only for a very short time with a small stop loss.
D) SEMI-PROFESSIONAL BANKROLL: one created and used strictly for supplementing income or continuing to grow it large enough to turn Pro for livelihood.
E) PROFESSIONAL BANKROLL: one that is used to finance your profession although as it grows may funnel some funds to be used for outside investments.
2) For those that fall into the first three (Entertainment, Recreational, or Serious Recreational), are your bankrolls created at the spur of the moment of a trip, or are they saved up weeks before, or possibly set aside from previous trips to use on future trips?
3) How many hours a day do you play?
4) What are your games of choice?
5) Approximately what percentage of time do you spend on each, daily or through out your trip?
6) Do you use some form of money management? (Example: Division of bankroll by the number of days in trip, or sessions in a day?) This would be seen as protection from running the risk of bankroll ruin.
7) Do you drink (alcohol) while playing? If so, would it be one drink or less per hour or more than one per hour? (Curious to see what percent might be impeding their judgment.)
8) What is considered a big win for you on a trip, not talking about a single win but a total win at end of trip? ( To keep this in perspective: not a dollar amount but a percentage above your entire trip bankroll.)
9) What is your goal for a successful trip? (Again not in dollars but a percentage above entire trip bankroll.)
10) How many trips have you made to Vegas, or at least the best you can remember?
11) What is your average stay in Vegas? (in days)
12) To the best of your knowledge (and lets be honest here) of your total trips, what percentage have been successful? (Successful meaning in the positive.)
If we are fortunate enough to have any Semi-Professionals or Professionals, maybe you could enlighten us with some answers to a few more questions specifically for you.
1) How many years did it take you to transition from a recreational player to a semi-professional, and then if any a professional?
2) About how many hours a week do you play?
3) From day to day what percentage of your entire bankroll do you put at risk?
4) For a tournament, what would be the largest percentage of your entire bankroll you would be willing to put at risk? (Now I really don't follow tournaments and buy in costs, and there may be some with enormous size bankrolls that any size buy in may not have you concerned but if there were, what would that percentage be?)
5) At what level of play would one have to consistently play at to obtain these annual income levels? ( I know there's many variables, but ball park figure with great play.) 50-100k 100-200k 200+k
6) Any other interesting things that you could share, like maximum play time, time of day you prefer to play, does it put a stain on marriage?
7) What are IRS expectations on reporting income?
8) What are your short term goals, long term goals, and would you ever consider retiring?
9) Do you still enjoy it?
Here's my answers:
1) Years ago I was a very serious recreational bankroll player, playing only Black Jack, because I was a card counter and still am. But over the past 5-10 years, I've gotten into Poker more due to the rule changes in Black Jack on the strip and some downtown. Now, I'm more of a combination of serious and recreational bankroll, mainly because my wife comes with me more often to Vegas since prior years.
2) My bankrolls are generally created at the spur-of-the-moment and along with prior earnings from previous trips.
3) Years ago, I used to play 4-6 hours a day. Now, I play 2-4 hours usually.
4) My main game of choice is Poker at this time, followed by Black Jack, and then a little bit of video poker and some slots.
5) The percentage of time I spend playing on each is roughly: Poker (75%), Black Jack (10%), Video Poker/Slots (15%), and that's because of my wife.
6) My form of money management is to divide my bankroll by number of days on trip; my total loss for a day would not be more than that percentage.
7) On the poker tables and black jack tables, I might have one drink every couple of hours. On every other game, simply because I think of them as a form of entertainment, I don't limit myself to any particular number of drinks. Because these games are a form of entertainment, the only limit I have is not to get intoxicated.
8) A big win to me would be considered, based on the types of games I play, to come home with double my bankroll.
9) A successful trip would be considered to me would be at least 50% or more of my bankroll.
10) The best I can recall, I've made 30+ trips to Vegas over the years.
11) Since I live in Florida, my trips tend to be on the long side, usually ten to fifteen days.
12) It's hard for me to give a total here, because over the past 5 years, I haven't really tracked how many of the trips were successful (in the positive) very well. Prior to that, it would have been about 75%.
Survey on bankrolls (Recreational, Semi-Professional, Professional)
Going into casinos, I see people from all walks of life playing all types of games, most staying at their game of choice for some time and others jumping from one to another. I look and see extraverts and introverts; I interpret facial expressions and body language from joy to anger, studious to almost trance like. Over the years I've always wondered how serious people are with their bankrolls.
1) Based on my definitions of bankrolls, which of these would best describe your bankroll and type of player you are?
A) ENTERTAINMENT BANKROLL: one that is used for strictly enjoyment and not caring which game is chosen, whether favorable or unfavorable to the player, even if played with correct strategies---sort of like your accommodations expense, it's a part of the expected cost of the trip. If lost, it's no big deal.
B) RECREATIONAL BANKROLL: one used for enjoyment as well but somewhat disciplined on your selection of games---you tend to chose games that are slightly more favorable to the player, but occasionally playing the less favorable.
C) SERIOUS RECREATIONAL BANKROLL: one for enjoyment but very disciplined on your game selections. Your games of choice revolve around games that have been proven that they can be beaten with correct strategies and proper bankroll management and you play them that way. BJ, Poker, VP would fall into this category, and all other games would not. Rarely would you play other games, and only for a very short time with a small stop loss.
D) SEMI-PROFESSIONAL BANKROLL: one created and used strictly for supplementing income or continuing to grow it large enough to turn Pro for livelihood.
E) PROFESSIONAL BANKROLL: one that is used to finance your profession although as it grows may funnel some funds to be used for outside investments.
2) For those that fall into the first three (Entertainment, Recreational, or Serious Recreational), are your bankrolls created at the spur of the moment of a trip, or are they saved up weeks before, or possibly set aside from previous trips to use on future trips?
3) How many hours a day do you play?
4) What are your games of choice?
5) Approximately what percentage of time do you spend on each, daily or through out your trip?
6) Do you use some form of money management? (Example: Division of bankroll by the number of days in trip, or sessions in a day?) This would be seen as protection from running the risk of bankroll ruin.
7) Do you drink (alcohol) while playing? If so, would it be one drink or less per hour or more than one per hour? (Curious to see what percent might be impeding their judgment.)
8) What is considered a big win for you on a trip, not talking about a single win but a total win at end of trip? ( To keep this in perspective: not a dollar amount but a percentage above your entire trip bankroll.)
9) What is your goal for a successful trip? (Again not in dollars but a percentage above entire trip bankroll.)
10) How many trips have you made to Vegas, or at least the best you can remember?
11) What is your average stay in Vegas? (in days)
12) To the best of your knowledge (and lets be honest here) of your total trips, what percentage have been successful? (Successful meaning in the positive.)
If we are fortunate enough to have any Semi-Professionals or Professionals, maybe you could enlighten us with some answers to a few more questions specifically for you.
1) How many years did it take you to transition from a recreational player to a semi-professional, and then if any a professional?
2) About how many hours a week do you play?
3) From day to day what percentage of your entire bankroll do you put at risk?
4) For a tournament, what would be the largest percentage of your entire bankroll you would be willing to put at risk? (Now I really don't follow tournaments and buy in costs, and there may be some with enormous size bankrolls that any size buy in may not have you concerned but if there were, what would that percentage be?)
5) At what level of play would one have to consistently play at to obtain these annual income levels? ( I know there's many variables, but ball park figure with great play.) 50-100k 100-200k 200+k
6) Any other interesting things that you could share, like maximum play time, time of day you prefer to play, does it put a stain on marriage?
7) What are IRS expectations on reporting income?
8) What are your short term goals, long term goals, and would you ever consider retiring?
9) Do you still enjoy it?
Here's my answers:
1) Years ago I was a very serious recreational bankroll player, playing only Black Jack, because I was a card counter and still am. But over the past 5-10 years, I've gotten into Poker more due to the rule changes in Black Jack on the strip and some downtown. Now, I'm more of a combination of serious and recreational bankroll, mainly because my wife comes with me more often to Vegas since prior years.
2) My bankrolls are generally created at the spur-of-the-moment and along with prior earnings from previous trips.
3) Years ago, I used to play 4-6 hours a day. Now, I play 2-4 hours usually.
4) My main game of choice is Poker at this time, followed by Black Jack, and then a little bit of video poker and some slots.
5) The percentage of time I spend playing on each is roughly: Poker (75%), Black Jack (10%), Video Poker/Slots (15%), and that's because of my wife.
6) My form of money management is to divide my bankroll by number of days on trip; my total loss for a day would not be more than that percentage.
7) On the poker tables and black jack tables, I might have one drink every couple of hours. On every other game, simply because I think of them as a form of entertainment, I don't limit myself to any particular number of drinks. Because these games are a form of entertainment, the only limit I have is not to get intoxicated.
8) A big win to me would be considered, based on the types of games I play, to come home with double my bankroll.
9) A successful trip would be considered to me would be at least 50% or more of my bankroll.
10) The best I can recall, I've made 30+ trips to Vegas over the years.
11) Since I live in Florida, my trips tend to be on the long side, usually ten to fifteen days.
12) It's hard for me to give a total here, because over the past 5 years, I haven't really tracked how many of the trips were successful (in the positive) very well. Prior to that, it would have been about 75%.
