Thinking of LV, but ended up a VP Slut again

Yes, I do know that Players are definitely better off in playing in well regulated areas of the country/world since that will make it much less likely that a machine could be monkeyed around with. Otherwise, the Player could be taking another Crap Shoot on top of the one they are taking for playing.

I do think though that with the bigger, better well-known manufacturers (IGT, Game-King and Ballys that initially come out of Nevada), it is much less likely that anything will have been monkeyed around with.

The biggest question really with all of this is what are the pay schedules of these games and how well (or poorly) are people playing these games and are they playing them with Full-Coin in at all times? I'm saying this because I think that it can be possibly even a lot harder to end up with being able to play enough to hit a Royal Flush when the return that is being offered is way too low (if the pay scheules are offering rotten returns).

And so between their being lower returns, possibly higher Variance games being offered and possibly also the lower playing accuracy of players who are playing this stuff, that combination may help there being less Royal Flushes than in other locations where there are better games.

Now as for that American Coin story, for anyone who is interested in learning more about it, A&E Television (I think that it has also been shown on The History Channel) had a series several years ago called "City Confidential" and this show had an episode called "Las Vegas: Deadly Jackpot" about this incident and so keep your eyes out for it or it can very possibly be bought online through their online store which I think is at https://www.aetv.com .

I should also say that I don't know that the TV show made clear who the maker of those machines at that time were -- it could have been American Coin and not IGT or Gameking or Bally's.

RecVPPlayer
Quote

Originally posted by: RecVPPlayer
Yes, I do know that Players are definitely better off in playing in well regulated areas of the country/world since that will make it much less likely that a machine could be monkeyed around with. Otherwise, the Player could be taking another Crap Shoot on top of the one they are taking for playing.

I do think though that with the bigger, better well-known manufacturers (IGT, Game-King and Ballys that initially come out of Nevada), it is much less likely that anything will have been monkeyed around with.

The biggest question really with all of this is what are the pay schedules of these games and how well (or poorly) are people playing these games and are they playing them with Full-Coin in at all times? I'm saying this because I think that it can be possibly even a lot harder to end up with being able to play enough to hit a Royal Flush when the return that is being offered is way too low (if the pay scheules are offering rotten returns).

And so between their being lower returns, possibly higher Variance games being offered and possibly also the lower playing accuracy of players who are playing this stuff, that combination may help there being less Royal Flushes than in other locations where there are better games.

Now as for that American Coin story, for anyone who is interested in learning more about it, A&E Television (I think that it has also been shown on The History Channel) had a series several years ago called "City Confidential" and this show had an episode called "Las Vegas: Deadly Jackpot" about this incident and so keep your eyes out for it or it can very possibly be bought online through their online store which I think is at https://www.aetv.com .

I should also say that I don't know that the TV show made clear who the maker of those machines at that time were -- it could have been American Coin and not IGT or Gameking or Bally's.

RecVPPlayer


Just read this on the 4everforum...

Rigged VP and the Murder of a Rigger of VP
So yes, according to that article and according to what I remember seeing in that "Las Vegas: Deadly Jackpot" episode of the show "City Confidential" that I remember seeing, it was on American Coin Machines that this major rigging was done.

I finally did check VPFree2.com for what is listed as being at Hard Rock Tampa and what I find (at least at the lower denomination levels), are games which have bad returns and/or are also very volatile! That could very easily make it much harder just in and of itself for people to hit a Royal Flush!

It will also depend on people's skill in playing the game. If there is bad skill in combination with bad returning and/or volitile games, that makes it even harder for people to end up getting a Royal Flush!

RecVPPlayer
Not sure, but it seems to me that I've read that poor players actually hit the royal more often. It makes sense; you see a lot of bad pieces of strategy among poor players, but one that you often see is going for the royal too aggressively (like throwing a low pair and keeping two suited high cards).

I think Rec is right, Hard Rock doesn't really need to rig their machines to make a tidy profit. Less to lose than a casino in Nevada, but still plenty to lose if word ever got out.

Quote

Originally posted by: jstewa22
Not sure, but it seems to me that I've read that poor players actually hit the royal more often. It makes sense; you see a lot of bad pieces of strategy among poor players, but one that you often see is going for the royal too aggressively (like throwing a low pair and keeping two suited high cards).

I think Rec is right, Hard Rock doesn't really need to rig their machines to make a tidy profit. Less to lose than a casino in Nevada, but still plenty to lose if word ever got out.


OK, I have no other response to say except they draw a huge crowd to play $25 minimum to $50 minimum Black Jack tables.

Who on this board, can afford to play Green chip to double Green chips Black Jack in Vegas, with no comps, no free drinks, unless you go to the high limit room of $100+ Black Jack, and still no free drinks, ever, except what your points will buy?

A tidy profit, is so funny for those that live here, go there, do that. So Come here, and do that, please!

I will still state my position. I play 25c VP for that is the minimum you can do there. If I thought there was a reason of non rigging, I would surely go 50c to $1 VP, for 25c are like nickels anymore.

But you have to give me a reason to trust going beyound the minimum. And most poeple there do not, so 25c is all they get from most VP player here.

Quote

Originally posted by: nmterlv<brWho on this board, can afford to play Green chip to double Green chips Black Jack in Vegas, with no comps, no free drinks, unless you go to the high limit room of $100+ Black Jack, and still no free drinks, ever, except what your points will buy?




You hit the nail on the head. HR is basically the only game in town, so they'll stay plenty busy even without comps, CB, significant promotions or good games. I figure maybe 99% of people wouldn't know better and would go to HR even if a good downtown or locals' Vegas property were next door. Hell, look how busy the Strip is, look how many people are playing at the 6:5 table that's sitting right next to the 3:2 table or the 7/5 JoB machine that's across the aisle from the 9/6 machine.

Those of us who know will need to decide what to do with HR. I can certainly understand not playing; for me, I'm okay playing some Illinois Deuces but won't throw serious money or time at it, as I would play in Vegas.

As for whether the machines are rigged, I personally don't think they are. I could be wrong, and it's certainly more likely at an Indian casino than in Nevada. Probably somewhat more likely on an off-brand machine than on an IGT machine. BUT, I don't believe that you can detect a rigged machine just by playing it. Most authors figure about 5 RF cycles (i.e., about 200,000 hands) to get close to the true expected return. So, unless you're going to play the same exact machine for about 300 hours and log everything that happens, you really can't know if the machine is crooked.
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