Most overrated play at the table

I say it's the continuation bet after the flop. It is so standard as to be meaningless -- at least to me.

If I have a hand that hits the flop well, I'm not folding it at this point, just because the pre-flop raiser or first guy to bet, c-bets.

If I totally miss the flop, and I'm not on a strong draw, I'll likely fold -- not because someone c-bets, but because I'm not playing garbage.

To me, the c-bet is an overrated play, yet many swear by it. A lot of people c-bet their stacks away or get themselves into trouble betting out even when they miss. Your view?

Not sure why your post is bringing this out in me, but I have to tell you something.

I really like pie. Apple, Cherry, Pumpkin with whipped cream. Delicious.

I recently found a flavor that was most excellent. Pineapple upsidedown pie. Had cherries mixed in with the pineapple bits. Taste sensation.

I'm a bit verklempt that I may never find this flavor again.

Oh well, maybe I'll come across sauerkraut pie. I hear it's quite good. Anyone try it?

So about 2/3rds of the time you will fold to a cbet. Seems like people should be cbetting you a lot.

I always hate under/over rated questions, because the debate often ends up being about how something is rated.

In the online games, I'm used to. C-betting is an important weapon against set miners, and people that cold call raises too often. Set miners often have the best hand on the flop, but they will have a very hard getting it to show down. C-betting and sometimes barreling is an important part of exploiting them. People that cold call too often, also have a hard time defending their range. If they are playing fit or fold, it's especially profitable. If I c-bet 2/3's pot, the other player must call 60% of his range for my c-bet not to be immediately profitable. Since I often have equity, he must actually defend more often. That's hard for a player playing fit or fold to do.

Since you usually play limit, let's use a limit example. If I raise pf and the bb calls, there are 4.5 bets in the pot. If I c-bet, the BB has to call 82% of his range, for my bet not to show an immediate profit. So even if it fails 3 out of 4 times, you'd still be elated doing it.

Of course, as the field widens, it becomes easier for players to defend, so I'd be check folding more often against 4 players than 1.

Well, you're halfway right, tss.

I do fold about 2/3 of the time -- not because of a c-bet, but despite the c-bet.

Translation: An opponent's c-bet doesn't factor in to my decision after the flop.

"If I totally miss the flop, and I'm not on a strong draw, I'll likely fold -- not because someone c-bets, but because I'm not playing garbage."

Better?

So you liked the sauerkraut pie?

Since you and your opponents miss roughly 2/3rds of flops I cant remember where I read this but you should c-bet and call c-bets rougly 50% of the time. This makes cbetting against you with nothing less likely and visa versa..

many times when you raise pre and miss you still have the best hand and cbetting to a player who will fold to you is very important. Also calling a cbet is also important as you will get addiitional information on the turn.

With all of this calling or betting is highly dependent on cards, players, position, and stack to pot ratios..

gl..

h

I don't understand the distinction you're making. If someone checks to you, you'd fold?

LOL. Of course not. I'm saying that if I totally miss the flop, and don't have a strong draw, then I am pretty much done with the hand if faced with a bet, whether the bet is a c-bet or a bet from another player. There are plenty of other hands coming. Is the concept of folding a hand that falls apart on the flop that confusing? You realize that in limit, you are going to showdown with multiple players. If you blindly make and call c-bets, you are going to c-bet your stack away.

Obviously, I'm not folding to a check. And in my limit games, if I have a strong, playable hand that hits the flop hard, or have a strong draw, I will meet your c-bet with relentless raising, reraising and capping. In limit, a c-bet doesn't do much to chase anyone away, due to the limits you're playing at.

V-bets, now, that is the bread and butter.

Apologies in advance for the crude math that follows.

Heads up, I c-bet you 100% of the time. You fold 2/3 of the time I c-bet, and I pick up the pot. The other 1/3 of the time, you play back. Given your straightforward play, I can fold the 2/3 of the time that I missed here, and we effectively split the remaining 1/9 of total hands where we both connected with the flop.

Very roughly speaking, in the end I win 6.5/9 hands c-betting, you win 2.5/9 hands by only playing when you hit. 2 of your wins are one bet bigger than 6 of my wins, our remaining 0.5 wins even out.

Over the long run, I win.

Trust Todd, Wags, and Wendy on this. C-bets work, especially heads up. You hit on the key yourself - if you don't bet, they won't fold. Then you only win if you have the best hand.