Most overrated play at the table

That'll never happen, or even come close to happenning.

I should have made the distinction more clear that I was discussing LHE, my game of choice. Limit does not lend itself to heads-up play. You are going to showdown against multiple players on almost every hand.

If you are suggesting that all one need do in a NL game is C-bet, which will get the entire table to snap fold to you 2/3 of the time, I will immediately change games.

In limit, the c-bet has little value.

More than just the math above .. if you ONLY bet when you have something then you are very easy to read and everyone will fold to you when you bet. In multiway pots its a bit more difficult to cbet all the time but heads up I cbet virtually 100% of the time when I raised pre.. Against the preflop raiser and I am heads up I will float most flops with any pair and any draw.. On my bigger draws it starts getting more complicated again and there isnt a standard way to play...

h

LOL. I think it's pretty clear by now that most of you don't play limit. The c-bet in LHE is a borderline impotent move that does nothing but help build a pot for the guy or gal who is going to win it at showdown. Apparently the c-bet is a consistent winner in NL, so I understand why you would employ it all the time. In limit, it achieves nothing.

All I can tell you is that I ONLY bet when I have a playable hand and most players don't fold, even those with bottom pair. Thank God. Maybe that's why limit is better known by it's more accurate name: "no fold'em hold'em."

If no one minds, I'd like to expand the c-bet discussion to hear everyone's thoughts on when, or how often, or under what circumstances will you not c-bet.

For example, how often or under what circumstances will you not c-bet when you hit the flop? I think that it's a function of the table and/or mixing up your play, etc.

Personally and because I tend to acutely remember the suckouts, I tend to c-bet any board with big draw potential because I detest giving free cards to the chasers.

Your thoughts?

PS I don't think c-betting is overrated for the posters' reasons described above and because it works most of the time, and because I hate giving the free card...immediately above.

Good question. As a LIMIT player, if I hit the flop, I won't c-bet or lead out if I'm in early position and am playing against loose players who have shown a tendency to bet, bet, bet. I'll likely call and then check raise them on the turn, if the card isn't devestating to my hand. If there are 6 players on the turn, 2 or 3 will fold to a check raise. The rest will allow themselves to be led around by the nose.

Limit players love action, love to draw, love to call, overvalue their hands, and hate to fold. But some will also get skittish when faced with a raise or some other threatening move early on. I WILL c-bet if the players have shown a tendency to be frightened easily. I don't like to give free cards, either.

Nighthawk,

For years I only played limit hold 'em, live and online, with the exception of the twice monthly KFC tournaments. I only switched to NLHE within the last two years. The game you describe is full ring limit hold 'em in a live (i.e. non-online) setting, correct?

If you haven't already done so, I strongly suggest you read the Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth book Small Stakes Hold 'em published by 2+2, the seminal book for the type of game that you describe. In SSHE, a "tight" games has an average of 3-5 players seeing the flop, while a "loose" game has 6-8. I think you will find SSHE to be very insightful, particularly the discussions on assessing the strength and vulnerability of your hand, protecting your hand, and the post-flop adjustments you should make depending on whether the pot is large or small.

A friend of mine that has never played online crushes $10/20 LHE in casino and underground games. He still swears by SSHE. The only other poker book he's read was Lee Jones's "Winning Low Limit Hold'em" when he first started out playing $2/4.

I never cbet any more.

Cat,

I wont c-bet in multiway pots and I am out of position with no hand and no draw.. to balance this strategy out i will also check oop when I have a really big hand or big draw.. then I will check raise.. This tends to work a bit better in the loose games I play in LA.. this works especially well against a player or players that will bet with a lot of weaker hands in position.

there is a guy that I have played with for many years and he is this type of player and just cant wait to bet in position. he will float most of the time too. So many times I just check raise him.. sometimes I lead into him and sometimes I will just call him down. I do this all the time so he cant get a read on me..

I find a cbet in a multiway pot on a draw heavy board just tends to get called by multiple people.. this in esence lets them see the turn for cheap.. the check raise if you can manage it (based of course by the read of the other players and your stack size) is a key weapon to punish these player and squeezing the players in between..

I will even check in a heads up pot if I can get my whole stack in on a check raise.. these suggetions again are highly dependent on the other players, board texture and most importantly my stack to pot ratio.

h

Seriously?

This is true live at low and mid limits, but it isn't true online and it isn't true at high limits live. People play limit holdem so very badly at low limits live that it is not uncommon to see 6 people or more in the pot for a raised flop. Obv., as I said in my post, it is easier for many people to defend their range than fewer.