$5 a gallon gas? Say it ain't so!

Good point.

Truth is, I can't find any reputable sources dedicated to disproving things you make up.

Announce that you have sixteen noses, and watch me struggle similarly.

Isn't it ironic how the media were all over Bush when gas prices hit $3 and Pelosi stated the average american driver is suffering paying these prices and Bush wasn't doing anything to help them.

Yet, now you don't hear anyone questioning Obama or Pelosi about this.

Makes you want to go Hummmmmmm!

Why is it that so many anti-oil folks only think of oil as for gasoline? Oil is clothing, furniture, fertilizer and a zillion other uses. People like young Joe Kennedy, Algore, Robert Redford etc who talk such talk and barely crawl much less walk any walk.
My house had solar collectors for hot water installed in 1981. I had to get them from Israel. My kids both drive Priuses. Yet it is obvious we need to get our own oil. put more rigs next to those in Santa Barbara, Long Beach and the Texas, Louisiana, and Florida gulf coasts. Fast track refineries and build many nuclear plants.
Energy is the lifeblood of an advanced technological society. We could do without like Chilcoot suggests: "All this heat and noise over ANWR is designed to distract Americans from achieving real energy independence, which will require a shift from such heavy reliance on fossil fuels." But that will entail no heat in winter and ac in summer. No plane flights to Vegas. No trucks to deliver food. No new medical R/D etc. The new "Green World."
I certainly hope Chilcoot is foregoing many necessities as he asks us all to get off fossil fuels. Please don't do an Algore on us.
Get real. Drill now.

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Chilcoot meant that not as a sudden "shift" from fossil-fuel-based energy to nothing at all, but rather a gradual shift to a greater and greater proportion of non-fossil-fuel-based alternatives. (Alternatives that an oil shortage will encourage the further development of.)

But nice job at creating an elegant blend of the false dichotomy and straw-man argument. I always appreciate a well-crafted logical fallacy. :-)

- Jeff

Chill - since you and Forkie will prove your point, let me give you more links and evidence:

Cuba is negotiating a lease with China for offshore oil exploration, but it's not in the "very parts of the gulf that American producers are currently forbidden to touch." Cuba controls its own offshore, just like the United States. And the Chinese lease wouldn't be 45 miles from the Florida coast. The areas closest to the United States haven't been leased yet. But he's right in suggesting that Cuba could end up drilling closer to U.S. shores than America currently allows in its offshore waters. (https://politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/mar/31/cliff-stearns/cliff-stearns-cuba-china-oil-drilling/)



I said 100 miles from the US not 45 miles --- so my statement IS correct......and Wikipedia confirms Key West Florida is 94 miles from Cuba.

Just 'CUZ a liberal calls something an Urban Legend, does not make it so.

However, I hear Forkie is somewhat an "urban legend" for his Ghetto walks in Vegas.

If you had said that China was negotiating a lease close to our shores, you would have been truthful. But that's not what you said, is it?

When you stated that China was actually drilling close to our shores, you were lying. Calling it an urban legend was the polite way of saying it, and allowing you to correct the record. If you had any class, you would have admitted it by now.

Just thought I'd point out that the term "urban legend" is not necessarily synonymous with "not true," although it's often used that way.

According to the current wikipedia entry on it:


"An urban legend, urban myth, urban tale, or contemporary legend, is a form of modern folklore consisting of stories usually believed by their tellers to be true. As with all folklore and mythology, the designation suggests nothing about the story's truth or falsehood, but merely that it is in circulation, exhibits variation over time, and carries some significance that motivates the community in preserving and propagating it."


With that out of the way, carry on gents...

- Jeff

"But he's right in suggesting that Cuba could end up drilling closer to U.S. shores than America currently allows in its offshore waters. "

So - China drilling 94 miles from Florida is Okydokey....

USA Drilling in ANWR --- thousands of miles from a town of any significant size -- no way Jose.


Now I get it.....

Jeff, I'll try to do a "well crafted" explanation. Should gas hit $5/ gal it would be the result of anti-free market policies. It would make alternative fuels more plausible but in an artificial way. For numerous reasons we should be agressively pursuing our own oil supplies AND proven alternatives such as nuclear. Wind and ethanols are a joke, given the enormity of our energy needs.
Ironically it is the oil companies who are spending the most money on alternatives.
Excuse me if I'm mistaken but I think there is a segment of this populace who thinks $5 a gallon would be good for the country. I see Chilcoot as possibly one of those. My original point to that was it would be bad on many, many levels, most so to the lower income brackets.

America's political right is like a red herring machine.

They invent red herrings to avoid the actual issues, for which they have no answers.

We start by discussing high gas prices and what changes they may prompt.

We end up discussing Cuba's ability (yikes! Cuba!) to lease offshore oil tracts to the Chinese (YIKES!!! CHINA!!!), and how many thousands of miles from a "town of a significant size" is enough to permit drilling in a wildlife refuge.

Anything to avoid dealing with the actual energy issues we face.

We know this pattern:
Don't talk about health care, talk about death panels.
Don't talk about the clearly-expressed will of the citizenry, talk about ACORN, New Black Panthers, and birth certificates.
Don't talk about how to best secure America from attack, talk about Manhattan mosques, Sharia law, and the War on Christmas.

All topics invented by the right to distract us from the actual issues confronting us.