9-9-9 Is Definitely The Way to Go

No, I'd like to see a system where a hedge fund manager's overall tax rate isn't lower than mine. It is right now...and our friendly neighborhood GOP candidates say they want to make that gap even bigger.

Is that what you want, Ken?

It wouldn't be hard to have a new "card" scheme.
Depending on which card you carry, your tax rate at tolls, park entrances, gas tax at the pump, hotel taxes, and such would be different.
We could have cards that reflect whether you're rich or poor.
Women and minorities could get discount cards.
Tall, good looking people would have to pay more because the evidence is they make more and are happier.
Good looking could be easily handled through crowd sourcing on the net.
Interesting idea. It could work.
The top 1% would have a card that made them pay more for everything.

PJ, I didn't take this confrontational or partisan. I'm just trying to get rid of the he said/she said rhetoric that the likes of you and hoops always devolve into.

If that toll hitting "harder" on the Walmart worker than Wynn isn't a problem for you, then why did you bring it up? If it is a problem for you, using your example what toll would you levy on the low-wage earner? Again, your examples not mine.

Rate, how about total amount paid? Let's break this down to one taxing entity. What is the value of the package of services an American citizen derives from the federal government? If Steve Wynn and Sally Walmart are equally secure from unlawful seizures, both have the EPA looking out for people dumping lead into the municipal water supply, both know that the damn Russkies aren't going to overrun our armed forces and take over the nation, why should Sally pay less than Steve for that suite of services? You are caught up on percentages, but how is if fair if that hedge fund guy pays 10 percent yet it equals $200,000 dollars in tax and you pay 20 percent and it equals $3000 dollars? Assuming he hasn't gained that position of superior-paying employment through unlawful means why should he pay more in actual dollars? Is it simply because he "can" or is it because you think he should?

I'm not an all-knowing savant like you guys. I'm just dumb enough that I think we can add up what a person/corporation/church takes in and then assign a fair exaction to it. But if we are talking true equity, at some level it seems proper to question why a poor person should pay less to receive the same services as a rich person. If the nation believes equity dictates that poorer people should pay less in real dollars, then admit it and enact a tiered system.

I do admit it. No argument here. We need a tiered system. We have a tiered system. We've always had a tiered system.

If you think every person in this country should pay the same fixed dollar amount in taxes then I've got nothing for you. Neither do our founding fathers or any Congress or Presidential Administration in our history - or any industrialized country in the world. Not only is it massively unfair to those at the lower end of the income scale....it is also completely unfeasable. Haiti would have better infrastructure and public services than our nation with such a system.

OK, just so we are clear, one American paying $1,000,000 in taxes and another paying $2,500 is NOT fair if the rate is the same. Got it.

BTW, which of the Founding Fathers was it who wrote a federal income tax into the Constitution? Can you help me out with that one?

I didn't say Federal Income tax. I said tax. You are now playing the same game Hoops does. Congrats.

Ken, I invite you to follow your own idea through its fruition:
Step 1) Find the poorest person in this country and assign a percent of his income to tax
Step 2) Multiply that by 100 Million Head of households
Step 3) Take that amount and fund the nation's military, guard, highways, bridges, rails, airports, schools, hospitals, medical research, energy grid, SEC, FDA, cops, firefighters, and teachers.

If you can find a way to do it you'll win the Nobel Prize in economics.

Note: a flat tax does NOT mean that "every person in this country should pay the same fixed dollar amount in taxes". With a true flat tax (most are not because there are exemptions), a person making twice as much pays twice as much.

Second, there are many people who advocate for a fix amount per person. Some countries have it. Switzerland and Israel are two that come to mind that have taxes where each person pays a fixed amount no matter who you are. There's also a group of people out there that advocate a fixed amount tax because it's "non-distortionary" and they associate themselves with the thinking of Henry George [corrected].

OK, PJ, I'll play your game. Since we are largely talking about federal income tax here, what would your friends the FFs say about that? We know they were very wary of taxation to begin with, and even the Federalists would run screaming from what Federal has come to mean.

One thing I find lacking from your world view, PJ, is any questioning as to what the feds are spending. Are you saying we need to feed the beast at the present rate to avert the Haitification of America? I'm not seeing a lot of new interstates being built, PJ, or Grand Coulees or Hoovers. We have a new hospital here and a treatment plant and, imagine that, they came from local bond proceeds. Is there perhaps somewhere in all of this to question what we are spending and then assign the respective yokes all taxpayers are to wear?

You appear to think earning is something that is deserving of a sin tax.

Sorry, Ken, I cant help you. Your "class warfare" dispostion is what it is.

You are free to believe the top 10% of income earners in this country have received the short end of the stick the past 30 years and that they are the true victims of a system that punishes people for being successful. Do I have that right? Of course this is 100% contrary to the statisitics that show a massive shift of wealth in this time period from the middle class to those horribly oppressed people at the top. That gap is now at its largest size since before the Great Depression. You can conclude that is because those bottom 90% are just lazy and unmotivated to be successful - or you can conclude that they are in fact the true victims of a rigged system. Of course, when you promote a tax system that by its very definition widens the gap its hard to argue the former.

You should quit your job and be camping out at some occupy site close to you. Money that other people earn doesn't really belong to them. It belongs to people who don't earn it. The more money taken, the better it is for all.