Train Travel

Within the last year, I posted about some flawed experiences with Amtrak. I began reading a book on traveling around America by train. The author did this within the last decade. Here's a sample from the preface:

By the mid-1970s, American passenger rail, in near total disarray, fell under the baleful sway of Conrail and Amtrak, both apparently created on a Soviet management model, with an extra overlay of Murphy's Law to ensure maximum entropy of service. In 1974 I took the San Francisco Zephyr from New York to Oakland California. It was, of course, uncomfortable, filthy, and cold, worn-out rolling stock, iffy linens, and onboard food consisting of mystery-meat sandwiches prepared solely in a radar range.

Since then, train travel in the United States has become a pretty bare-bones affair. Amtrak has become the laughingstock of the world. Most Americans now living have never been passengers on train -- for them it's as outmoded as a stagecoach.
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Back to me:
California recently ventured into the train business once again, voting to spend billions, as the state fires teachers, on a high speed train that will begin it's route from Fresno to Bakersrfield. Projections justifying the spending include the "estimate" that more people will board the train in Fresno to travel to Bakersfield than currently board trains in NY's Grand Central Station. Voters of California already voted to spend money on exploring such a project. What was most of the money spent on? Not engineering. Not planning. A market company that lobbied state politicians to approve the plan. The current plan was eventual passed by a single vote in the state legislature.

And I like trains -- a lot. I ride them and read about them and plan to ride them more. There's one I would have liked to been on, a steam loco that ran from LA to Phoenix and back. That was in May. Coming up in about month, a private passenger train will run from LA to Utah passing through Las Vegas. Not many chances any more to take a train from LA to Vegas.
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Originally posted by: tennis_bum
Voters of California already voted to spend money on exploring such a project. What was most of the money spent on? Not engineering. Not planning. A market company that lobbied state politicians to approve the plan.
My sources say you're way, WAY off.

In 2008, voters approved a $9.95 billion bond to fund the first stage of the rail project. Through the end of last year, $12.5 million has been spent on lobbying.

Not "most" of the money. Not half of the money. Just over one one-thousandth of the money.

Where did you hear that most of the money that California voters approved to explore the project was spent on lobbying?
High Speed rail is a Boondoggle and a fraud committed on the people of California.
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
High Speed rail is a Boondoggle and a fraud committed on the people of California.
Absolutely, we can't have voters express their will at the ballot box, can we?

So outrageous that 79% of California's registered voters would vote in an public election and collectively decide to support high speed rail in their state.

Poor California! Having high speed rail forced on them after they voted to open their wallets to support high speed rail!

Mark my words California, you're becoming democratic!

I am sure that TB is disapproving that his thread has become political.
Trains rock- but I am over fifty.
My Father was a foreman for Railway Express- which was Well-Fargo back in the day.
I remember the Terminal tower in Cleveland which all trains came into.
I remember diner-cars and billows of smoke.
I'd put pennies on the tracks and would wave til they blew the horns.. I saw Hobo's..
I went to Memphis by train from Penn Station , Boston and Oxnard to S.F. (Amtrak)

Our Transportation division has not made money in several years/and they were Kings in the 70/80s & 90s. Now, Const. Man. is holding our company together.
The ACES project ( NYC express train to AC, Atlantic City Express Service) closed... the bus is faster and left more often. Nice name but..
LIRR (Long Island Rail road) is bleeding and broken but driving and parking into the City here is also too expensive unless you are a CEO.
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
High Speed rail is a Boondoggle and a fraud committed on the people of California.
Absolutely, we can't have voters express their will at the ballot box, can we?

So outrageous that 79% of California's registered voters would vote in an public election and collectively decide to support high speed rail in their state.

Poor California! Having high speed rail forced on them after they voted to open their wallets to support high speed rail!

Mark my words California, you're becoming democratic!

It's a fraud because what's being delivered is not what we voted on.
1. It has more than doubled in estimated cost since we approved it. Estimated ticket prices are allready increased by 2/3. Ridership estimates we based our decisions on were false. A vote based on bad information.
2. Each segment was supposed to be 'Electrified', 220 MPH, Full Funded by state and matching funds. The Billions being spent today represent NONE of that...in direct contradiction to the wording of the ballot measure. This is now being challenged in court.
3. It barely passed in better econonmic times. Believe me, it is no longer supported by the people of California. If there is another vote it will fail. Sane people are working to get this on the ballot to stop it.
4. Our politicans are failing us by not recognizing the changing fiscal landscape...California is broke, in debt, and our cities are failing...while Sacramento spends Billions on the Train to Nowhere. This boondoggle should not be on anyone's list of important things to do in Califiornia....compared to things like Schools and Public Safety that are being degraded as we speak.
5. Well, since I live in Fresno, maybe I'll take it to Bakersfield...NOT....NO ONE WILL.

Sorry if I turned your thread political TB...but It's in MY back yard...and it stinks.
The two points of discussion are
1) usefullness of rail
2) funding

Regarding number (1) my opinion is that high speed rail is an attribute of a modern society that improves the quality of life, economy, and efficient energy usage of the cities it connects. It should be something aggressively pursued. Certain routes obviously have more benefit than others. I won't venture an opiion on Fresno/Bakersfield as I am not familiar with the area.

Regarding number (2) I think it is perfectly relevant to consider the priority of the rail to crumbling schools, laid off public servants, and massive state deficits. High speed rail should not be a state project...just like the Hoover Damn was not a state project. Rail should be a Federal priority...and you can get more than enough money simply by reducing our pentagon budget from being 50 times that of the rest of the world ....to a measly 30 times the rest of the world.

But as of 2008 Infrastructure spending at the Federal Level has suddenly become a controversial issue that is said to be a giant waste of money with no payback, benefit, or job creation of any kind. That sentiment wont last forever - mainly because the people who say it dont believe it - its just a weapon they use to rationalize oppossition to recent policy from the current administration. I am 40 now. I believe by the time I retire high speed will connect almost every city on the coasts and many major cities in the midwest...and it will have plenty of support from both parties.

If you dont believe me I'll point you to Eric Cantor, the leader against federal spending since 2008, who has actively petitioned for high speed rail to connect Richmond and Washington. Thats not said to attack the leader for his hypocrisy...its saud to point out the fact that high speed rail is blessed by most everyone at the Federal Level - they just have not all found it politically convenient to tell you that yet. But they will.
I also live in California and I did take a train (Amtrack) once. It was in about 1978 round trip between Los Angeles' Union Station and Oceanside (that's near San Diego).

And actually with Amtrack now, to go between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, Amtrack uses buses.

I did many years ago check out the price when the train was still running and it was almost as much as flying but it took over 7 hours because it stopped all over the place on the way.

As for the High Speed rail stuff, I voted against it because I realized that it would never justify its projected cost and California actually had better things to spend its money on.

But to see more train travel stuff in California, Huell Howser has done stuff involving trains over the years. Maybe TB should further check that out (if he's interested)!

RecVPPlayer
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Originally posted by: alanleroy
3. It barely passed in better econonmic times. Believe me, it is no longer supported by the people of California. If there is another vote it will fail. Sane people are working to get this on the ballot to stop it.
The California economy, like the nation's economy, was in recession in November 2008 when this vote occurred. A recession that ended years ago.

You may recall a housing market correction, a subprime mortgage crisis, the stock market in freefall, and the dollar skidding against world markets?

Lehman going bankrupt? AIG getting an $85 billion from the Fed? President Bush proposing $700 billion for the Troubled Assets Relief Program? All this six weeks before Californians went to the polls and voted to approve bonds to pay for high-speed rail?

Yes? No?

I don't know whether the current rail plan makes sense. It may not. But don't pretend that Californians didn't choose this path just because you perhaps didn't. Californians did, at a time when the economy was far worse than it is today.
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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
Quote

Originally posted by: alanleroy
3. It barely passed in better econonmic times. Believe me, it is no longer supported by the people of California. If there is another vote it will fail. Sane people are working to get this on the ballot to stop it.
The California economy, like the nation's economy, was in recession in November 2008 when this vote occurred. A recession that ended years ago.

You may recall a housing market correction, a subprime mortgage crisis, the stock market in freefall, and the dollar skidding against world markets?

Lehman going bankrupt? AIG getting an $85 billion from the Fed? President Bush proposing $700 billion for the Troubled Assets Relief Program? All this six weeks before Californians went to the polls and voted to approve bonds to pay for high-speed rail?

Yes? No?

I don't know whether the current rail plan makes sense. It may not. But don't pretend that Californians didn't choose this path just because you perhaps didn't. Californians did, at a time when the economy was far worse than it is today.

Did three cities declare Bankrupcy in 2008? Was California facing a massive debt crisis in 2008? Did california have a 17 Billion dollar deficit in 2008? Was California laying off teachers and police officers in 2008? Was California closing down big parts of our State Park system in 2008? In 2008 the unemployment rate in California was 7.2%. Now it's 11.8%. You're clueless.

Even more telling...if the vote was held again today 59% would reject it. That's the real will of the people.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/12/06/poll-california-voters-would-reject-high-speed-rail-in-new-vote/


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