Train Travel

I don't have the ability to argue with someone who makes numbers up.

For the benefit of others: In November 2008, when this vote took place, the unemployment rate in California was not 7.2%. It was soaring at 8.7%, on its way to a peak of 12.4%, from which its been falling for two years, to 10.8% in May.

Link

I will now await alanleroy calling me an "asshole" (his word) for again describing reality to him, like he did yesterday in the now-deleted "George Z" thread. Because that's apparently his true level, only occasionally masked.

As of last year, they've already spent $10 billion and not on a single rail (from Chilcoot who says that the $12.5 million spent on lobbying was only a little over 1/10% of the money they've already spent)!!! And there's not a single rail laid. It's a thousand times worse than I heard. I was under the impression most of the money hadn't been spent -- about $20 million spent and most of that on lobbying. Now I find out it's all gone. Horrible. What a waste.

My info is old. It comes from the mayor of Anaheim and a state Senator from Santa Clara County. They're politicians so I don't expect them to be accurate or truthful. One is on the state committee. The other on the board of group of Californians for rail travel -- a group which I support. Granted the mayor of Anaheim (whose name I don't recall) has some Anaheim interest. High speed rail to Anaheim -- which tourist might want, isn't planned for a decade or so. Plus, there's a major HUGE bottleneck through LA's Central Station -- and rail authority won't use the empty land south of Central Station which would allow of fast-tracking H docks and allow ease of cross-scheduling with commuter rail.

Since I like trains I could mention something else: the route between California's two largest cities, LA and San Diego, is in horrible shape. To get through some sections, the train makes twisting, turning routes inland at speeds of about 25 mph.

For some millions, not billions, the whole route could be made to be high speed. And it would connect the two largest cities and a high traffic corridor. That traffic corridor is the second highest trafficked in the country.

The term "high speed" is also interesting. Under federal guidelines, high speed which also accept freight is 125mph (which the last California plan. The Acela is engineered to go over 200 mph. It averages in the 80's.

And absolutely Californian's have choosen this. Just as Americans chose George Bush in 2004 and Obama in 2008.

Okay, yeah, for myself I don't repeat sources I think give inaccurate and untruthful information.

I also like trains a lot, I held a Eurail pass in 2010 and a German Rail Pass in 2011. Europe's rail systems are incredible and greatly improve the public's quality of life. My enthusiasm for public transit is well-detailed in these forums.

However, I have serious doubts about whether this sort of high-speed rail, without much of a supporting feeder rail network, can succeed in California's decentralized sprawl.

Oh..ok.. Even if we use your numbers (Mine were full year averages) CA Was 8.7 and now is 10.8. So in your world 10.8 is a better unemployment number than 8.7. That's the kind of 'reality' Chilcoot describes to people...Yeah we're in much better shape...NOT. And you conveniently didn't comment on the poll results that show the real will of Californians. It was a mistake. 59% see it as a mistake. The politicians just see the gravy train.

Oh no...that was not 'for describing reality'...that was just using your own smear technique on you....But I think most people here agree with my description.

And again...apologies to TB for getting political and a little mean. Sometimes I can't help myself. I'll try to do better.

1. Oh, so now you're claiming your statement that "Now it's 11.8%" is a full year average? You need to check that chart again. The average rate for the past 12 months is 11.2%, with the most recent monthly figure 10.8%, a full point below what you claimed it was.

alanleroy, you make things up (supplemented by namecalling when you get frustrated). Others just call you on it.

2. I am not claiming that voters can't later regret decisions they make. They can, sometimes do, and may now regret their 2008 vote to fund high speed rail.

But that's neither here nor there. You whined that is was "a fraud committed on the people of California". I merely pointed out that California voters chose this path, democratically, at election booths across the state in November 2008. You may not like it, and they may now regret it, but this is the choice they made. Not a fraud.

And lastly, if the bond money's being misspent, being spent in a way that the voters didn't approve in 2008, then by all means walk down to the county courthouse and sue to stop it. If you're right, you'll win, and be a hero to many.

Already done..but not by me.

This one was thrown out because it was filed before the bond funds were authorized to be spent. It's now reinstated.
https://www.transdef.org/HSR/Taxpayer_assets/Brady%20526a%20complaint.pdf

Here's another one.

https://www.maderafb.com/pdf/Monthly%20Newspapers/MCFB-CHSRA%20Petition.pdf

Cool, if they're right I hope they win.

Most people think employment picture is a good indicator of 'worse' or 'better' when it comes to the economy. Who cares what GDP is if there are massive numbers of suffering unemployed? Tell the EXTRA couple of hundred thousand unemployed, underemployed and those that just plain gave up that things are better now. Tell that to the teachers, cops and firefighters that are getting laid off while we build a non high speed rail to Fresno. Tell that to the creditors of our 3 bankrupt cities...The fact is California has NOT recovered as well as other states...and we have to be a lot smarter about how we spend our money.

475 of California's 478 incorporated cities have not declared bankruptcy.

Perspective is not a vice.