Another example of Lyin' Liberals

I'll answer your questions.

Are American subsidies equivalent to China's? No. Who ever said they were? Who ever said they should be?

Have you researched whether $12K/year is a fair living wage in China? Or whether that's actually what auto workers are paid there? I have. Get back to us. As to what we should pay our workers...that depends on the value of their work. Do you know how much of a new car's sticker price is labor costs? Get back to us.

Buying foreign goods "at a discount" is GOOD for our economy. Joe Average wants to buy a car. He can get a new Chinese EV for $10K. Tell Joe that he should buy a ten-year-old used car instead, because he's an AMURRICAN. Tell him that he should be paying $30,000 for that same new car, because it's made in AMURRICA.

PJ, Japan didn't "steal" fuck-all from us. We didn't "surrender" anything to them. We screwed up, because we were stupid, arrogant, and yes, racist. We didn't think that Asians could make better cars than we could. So we did nothing to compete with them.

Yes, China is a dictatorship. So here's whatcha gonna get to do! You can buy a commie car, or a MURRICAN car at three times the price. It's YOUR choice, buddy boy! Free markets, and all that!

But while you're patting yourself on the back for making the FREEDOM! choice, consider how much worse life in China would be for its citizens if the world didn't trade with it. If you're truly concerned about daily life in China, that is.

Its a free country and you can have whatever opinion you want.....

But if you say you are for strong, living wages in America....and you are also for unhindered trade with companies that pay a fraction of those wages then you are contradicting yourself.   Those two things can not co-exist.   

Joe Biden has rightfully acknowledged that fact and sided with American workers.  But enjoy your Wal*Mart car made by slaves.

Of COURSE they can coexist--and they do! For MILLENNIA, workers in some nations have been paid more than workers in others; yet, those nations engage in trade!

I do understand that concepts like "the principle of comparative advantage" are counterintuitive. That's why the average layman doesn't understand them. Because you seem to not grasp "comparative advantage" at all, I suggest that you obtain some scholarly texts and read them so that you're better informed on this issue.

Or perhaps, PJ...you think that the average American auto worker is too stupid to apply his skills to some other industry? And do you think that our domestic auto manufacturers should be allowed unfettered license to make shit cars that cost too much--because they provide AMURRICAN JOBZ?

I don't know how old you are, but your arguments sound EXACTLY like those Ford, GM, and Chrysler made when Japan started sending us better and cheaper cars. They advocated for 100% tariffs, outright import bans, etc. "to protect the (sacred) American auto industry." And what actually happened? The cars that America produced got better. WAY better.

As they will again, in the face of Chinese competition. Right now, NOTHING resembling the Seagull is made in America, nor are there any plans for anything like it. Whose fault is that--China's?????

So you're telling me Toledo, Oh went to shit in the 80's because the unemployed auto-workers didnt just take some other job for some other company that didnt exist in their community and wasnt hiring?    

There's a reason why Ohio votes for Republicans now.   Its because many of their citizens think Democrats share your opinion.   I'm glad Joe Biden and Sherrod Brown dont.    

PJ do you think that Ford and GM are looking to sell sub 20k EVs?  This a market that isn't currently being served. Why not let somebody that is building a product for that market sell it?  I don't think very many people cross shop 120k EV Hummers with 12k EV sub-compacts.  The bottom line is the domestic automakers aren't building cars for this market and have no plans to do so. Not selling these in America just results lower income folks not having the opportunity to improve their lifestyle and lower their cost of living.  

Because China cheats and they have for 30 years...and it comes at the expense of our workers.  ANd I like that workers at GM make  more than $5/hour.

In addition to the things I already outlined - CHina steals our corporate research, makes counterfeits of our products, sends Malware to our corporations, and bans our competive products in their country.    I dont think we should reward that behavior by giving them control of our automobile sector.

And here's an obvious observation - if you unemploy a million autoworkers in the US you're going to have alot more of the lower income people you mention.    

We just enjoyed a record year in wage gains in this country due in large part to the unions of the auto sector and logisitics unions.    I think thats a good thing.  And I dont want to give those people the middle finger so I can buy a cheaper car made by slaves in China and Banglesdesh.    But its a free country.  You can have whatever opinion you want.

I get what you are saying but a 12k EV isn't going to hurt American automakers because the 12k EV buyer isn't going to buy an EV Hummer, Cadillac, F-150 or Mustang because they can't afford it.

In that price range that 12k buyers only option is buying used and it is likely going to be something that is 10+ years old, gets poor gas mileage and has regular non- warranty repair bills. 

To me elevating so many people with a new car that is inexpensive to own and operate is worth the downside of a few odd ducks saying you know I was gonna buy that 120k EV Hummer but then I saw this 12k sub-compact EV and I am going to go with that.  Domestic automakers have no plans to bulid affordable EVs so how is the cheap Chinese EV taking anything from them?

Kevin ripping PJ.  This is kind of interesting to read.  

How can Kevin possibly have any friends?  Don't answer that.....we all know the answer to it.  

You're not reading what I've been saying. The reason for the deterioration of the American auto industry is the poor decisions made by those running it. The workers don't have anything to do with those decisions.

But y'know why Detroit is so behind the curve on EVs? Red-state Republicans, paid lackeys for the fossil fuel industry, have been successfully getting in the way for decades. You want to advocate for "the people"? Get Detroit to stop trying to sell everyone a Hummer and instead, make practical, affordable cars--even if that means a lower per-unit profit.

I know--how socialist of me.

Oh and PJ--if you don't like those commie Chinese and don't want to use any of their products--please throw away 96 percent of everything you own. Y'know, as a gesture of sincerity.

Fewer and fewer of our products are now made in China.   Companies have been actively moving their production away from China to other western-friendly governments like VietNam  ..and we've also started onshoring some of those jobs back in the US.    

Private Sector Companies and the UNited States government see China as a threat to their security - both corporate and national.   And rightfully so.   Shi Jinping is not our ally or a good faith partner in trade.

But, yes, China still manufactures alot of our shit.   I'm fine with them making paper hats and cheap textiles.  Automobiles are more integral to our economy and way of life.   I'm not ok with a hostile dictator having that much influence in our economy.   And neither is the president you are voting for in November.