Mark wrote: "Whose interpretation of the law are you going to believe career Federal prosecutors in NY or Bob's? I know which side I come down on."
That's the beauty of a plea deal. The career Federal prosecuters in NY didn't have to prove for some of the charges that he actually committed any crimes.
Originally posted by: Bob Orme
Mark wrote: "Whose interpretation of the law are you going to believe career Federal prosecutors in NY or Bob's? I know which side I come down on."
That's the beauty of a plea deal. The career Federal prosecuters in NY didn't have to prove for some of the charges that he actually committed any crimes.
That is not how it works Bob. Prosecutors have to establish a factual basis for any crime someone pleads guilty to. You can't plead guilty to something that isn't a crime. In other words, if it were as you said and not a crime, then Cohen couldn't have pled guilty to it. The judge would have said there is no crime here and dismissed those charges.
I understand you may not know how this stuff works and you don't want to face the fact that Trump committed these felonies but you are wildly misstating what the actual law is in this area.
Here is how Judge Napolitano explained how what you say isn't a crime is, in fact, a crime.
“A very, very telling statement came out of the judge’s mouth yesterday,” Napolitano said. “The judge finding that the president ordered and paid for Michael Cohen to commit a crime.”
He added, “That is very telling.”
Host Steve Doocy then asked, “What crime?”
“The intentional deception and failure to report campaign payments,” Napolitano answered.
Doocy argued that “Donald Trump has said that that was not a campaign violation because it wasn’t involving the campaign. It was a damage control payment.”
Napolitano replied, “Unfortunately, the president wasn’t in the courtroom. And the people who were, the federal prosecutors, who had a statement from David Pecker, the guy that owns the National Enquirer, said it was for the campaign. The prosecutor said it was for the campaign. Michael Cohen said it was for the campaign."
If the campaign had made “an honest mistake” then they could have corrected it, but “if you do this as a scheme to hide it, then it’s not a civil wrong, it’s a crime. That’s what the judge found yesterday.”
The former judge also dismissed the idea that the case of former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards shows that Cohen’s crime does not implicate Trump.
“John Edwards’ case actually hurts the president. Because John Edwards’ lawyers made a motion to dismiss the indictment saying it’s not a crime and the judge published an opinion saying why it’s a crime.
“But the fact of the matter is, any scheme to defraud the government by failing to report what must be reported is a crime,” he said.
You can watch a video of this exchange here.
As I stated before, this blackmail was not a campaign crime. If anyone is guilty of a crime it is Stormy Daniels.
Originally posted by: David Miller
As I stated before, this blackmail was not a campaign crime. If anyone is guilty of a crime it is Stormy Daniels.
Let me guess: you also think Richard Nixon was not guilty of committing a crime.
What you are seeing on this thread is exactly why I DO NOT want Trump impeached. I would much rather have this play out in the 2020 election. I want Susan Collins, Chuck Grassley, Cory Gardner and all the purple state Republicans to rationalize all the scumbagery and crimes committed by this president - just like David Miller and Bob Orme do.
I'm sure the confederate states dont mind so much. But Colorado, Maine, and even Iowa....good luck propping up Donny Treason in those states. A blue wave is coming. Again.
The only "blue wave" that is forthcoming is the one in your toilet...
I both agree and disagree with you PJ. As a political strategy, it makes no sense for the Democrats to impeach Trump with 2020 right around the corner. However, I believe the morally right thing to do and the oath of office Congresspeople take will at some point require them to impeach Trump.
We already know and have proof that he committed these two campaign finance felonies. I believe when it is all said and done, there will be an incredibly large volume of criminality uncovered that Trump participated in. You potentially have the conspiracy between Trump, Wikileaks, the Russian troll farms, Russian Intelligence, Cambridge Analytica and many other individuals that worked both formally and informally for the Trump campaign. Federal Prosecutors have Rick Gates, Michael Flynn and I suspect in short order they will have Rodger Stone to lead them on a guided tour of that operation.
Then you get to the stuff Federal prosecutors in SDNY and state prosecutors in NY and NJ are working on potential tax fraud, insurance fraud, charity fraud, immigration fraud at the Trump golf courses, using inauguration funds to line Trump's pockets and on and on.
Not to mention the number of Obstruction of Justice counts that Trump could be charged with.
The good news is while we disagree on the course of action that should be taken, I suspect because of the number of criminal acts being investigated, it is unlikely we will know the full scope of Trump's criminal deeds until after the 2020 elections.
New witnesses and new potential criminality turn up every day. Just today, we learned Trump ordered the Justice Department to stop a merger because CNN was part of one of the companies being merged. We also learned that Fox News may have participated in the Stormy Danials coverup. Those two things alone are going to create dozens if not hundreds of new witnesses and tens of thousands of documents that have to be reviewed.
