Contingency plans

Originally posted by: Nines

Tell ya what. I won't minimize it if you won't maximize all the potential outcome absurdities. Maybe use a smaller slingshot, so to speak? And I'm more like a beam of light ( think the Luxor Sky Beam, etc) rather than dim. 

 

If the R's end up controlling all three branches ( doubtful), you and your ilk will indeed survive ( albeit miserably so for some). Your side  survived that scenario when GW Bush was prez ( for 3- 4 years); and on the flip side all us conservatives survived a D controlled govt. under JFK and Johnson in the 60's; the R's and me also survived the D control trifecta for 2 years '21-'23 recently ( I can show you the scars). This election is not Armageddonish or like some prefabricated death warrant for your side; it's about that pendulum swing thing that naturally occurrs and you routinely deny.

 

Oatmeal..think about it.


Surely you comprehend the drastic difference between the evil, narcissistic, and dishonest Trump and friendly dumdums like Reagan and Dubya? Their ideologies may have been far right, but there was no malevolence in them. Trump is something altogether different.

 

Look, I get it. You'll be taken by surprise, just like every citizen of every democracy that flipped to fascism. I won't be taken by surprise, because I'm a student of history. What's happening to us has happened to many other countries, and each time, their citizens said, "That can't happen here " And like you're doing with me, the people who gave warnings were mocked as doomsayers.

 

You'll learn. The hard way 

History major again, ehh? Then tell me how many fascist takeovers have we experienced here in these United States in the last 230+ years? They never materialized due to those foundational tenets  ( checks / balances) discussed earlier. Hitler nor Mussolini didn't operate in our country under our political systems and the associated balance of power components. They would have failed under our conditions, so your fascism historical description does not hold merit in the US to date. I fathom that you think he's gonna take things over.I don't think our systems will allow it. So we agree to disagree on yet another issue.

 

More recent history indicates that Trump didn't shoot one Democrat or set up one internment camp in his first term( like your D hero FDR did with the Japanese in his day). He further didn't strip any D citizenships. Do you just believe he was planting long-term fascist seeds during his initial term, and that he will unleash and harvest a more vulgar and controlling fascist agenda in a potential second term? Why would he wait until the second term? Longer dictatorship intent or what? You hated it but survived the first term; that's a historical fact, too. It appears you lost a lot of blood in that term.

 

I get it..you despise the guy ( I voted otherwise myself). I still believe you shovel too much coal against Trump; he's just not your crate of apples; it gets old.Your vote matters and is one entry against roughly half the US voting population. Kamala is your choice..go for it. Despite the fact that I disagree with most all policy stances you espouse, I'd not wanna learn that you experienced some cardiovascular/ nueropsychological event due to this election. Maybe you should revisit some historical tenets a little bit, too. It won't matter much though because we're not likely to agree on many issues in the end. I'm OK with that.

 

 

Edited on Oct 30, 2024 6:33pm
Originally posted by: Nines

History major again, ehh? Then tell me how many fascist takeovers have we experienced here in these United States in the last 230+ years? They never materialized due to those foundational tenets  ( checks / balances) discussed earlier. Hitler nor Mussolini didn't operate in our country under our political systems and the associated balance of power components. They would have failed under our conditions, so your fascism historical description does not hold merit in the US to date. I fathom that you think he's gonna take things over.I don't think our systems will allow it. So we agree to disagree on yet another issue.

 

More recent history indicates that Trump didn't shoot one Democrat or set up one internment camp in his first term( like your D hero FDR did with the Japanese in his day). He further didn't strip any D citizenships. Do you just believe he was planting long-term fascist seeds during his initial term, and that he will unleash and harvest a more vulgar and controlling fascist agenda in a potential second term? Why would he wait until the second term? Longer dictatorship intent or what? You hated it but survived the first term; that's a historical fact, too. It appears you lost a lot of blood in that term.

 

I get it..you despise the guy ( I voted otherwise myself). I still believe you shovel too much coal against Trump; he's just not your crate of apples; it gets old.Your vote matters and is one entry against roughly half the US voting population. Kamala is your choice..go for it. Despite the fact that I disagree with most all policy stances you espouse, I'd not wanna learn that you experienced some cardiovascular/ nueropsychological event due to this election. Maybe you should revisit some historical tenets a little bit, too. It won't matter much though because we're not likely to agree on many issues in the end. I'm OK with that.

 

 


Fallacy: something won't happen, because it hasn't happened. I can't die, because I never have.

Fallacy: something won't happen, because we've taken all sorts o'precautions to make sure it won't (farewell, Titanic).

Fallacy: something won't happen, because it could have happened last time, but it didn't (Germany didn't take over the world, yay us).

 

You have touching faith in our "checks and balances." But our Blundering Fathers never envisioned that one party could seize complete control of the government with a 50.01 percent majority. Checks and balances only work if those tools aren't all in the hands of the party that needs to be checked and balanced.

 

As for why Trump didn't go full fascist in his first term, the answer is, he was (and still is) a total incompetent. He surrounded himself with lackeys whose sole qualification was slavish loyalty to him. And then he antagonized so many of them, half of them were actively trying to thwart him by the time he'd been in office for a couple of years. He knows more about how it all works now. His next gang of thieves will be utterly subservient. Again, the standard dictator playbook.

 

Perhaps you can detail for us exactly what fail-safe mechanism will kick in to rescue us if Trump is in the White House and the House, Senate, and SCOTUS are owned by the MAGAverse. What check? What balance" What restraints?

 

In addition to the ghastly mistake of the Electoral College, the Founding Blunderers never anticipated that any one political party would be so ruthless, so intent on total domination, that they would act strictly and completely to further their own interests and would have no interest in governance except as it would further their own goals. They envisioned that the government would be men of principle.

 

They didn't conceive of an aberration like Trump, or an abomination like the current version of the Republican party.

I think they did anticipate the weaknesses and potential corruption of humans. You might peruse the Federalist Papers ( which backed ratification of the Constitution) to confirm their views of man's fallibility. Trump hasn't won yet, either. In the unlikely event the R's do end up controlling both

chambers of Congress and the presidency, you'll have to blame and punish the voting public/ half the country.  You'll be wanting to imprison them all..or something worse. That's not much of a democratic solution..and is rather fascistic on its face.

 

Still..try the oatmeal.

Edited on Oct 30, 2024 10:04pm

Originally posted by: Nines

I think they did anticipate the weaknesses and potential corruption of humans. You might peruse the Federalist Papers ( which backed ratification of the Constitution) to confirm their views of man's fallibility. Trump hasn't won yet, either. In the unlikely event the R's do end up controlling both

chambers of Congress and the presidency, you'll have to blame and punish the voting public/ half the country.  You'll be wanting to imprison them all..or something worse. That's not much of a democratic solution..and is rather fascistic on its face.

 

Still..try the oatmeal.


I'll blame the MAGAs, sure, but if it's what the nation wants, as expressed by the will of its voters, I'll accept it. I somehow don't expect the MAGAs to accept it if they lose.

 

I do think that all MAGAs should be rounded up, sterilized, lobotomized, and deported, but that's undemocratic. And that's the Achilles heel of democracy. If enough of a nation's citizens want to destroy it (NOT NECESSARILY A MAJORITY), then it's history.

 

So I suppose that it's the democratic thing to do to allow your democracy to die if enough people want that (again, it wouldn't take a majority to do that--maybe a plurality). Sort of like the right to commit suicide.

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