The debate also harmed Trump

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

But the fallacy is to, because they're both lousy candidates, consider them to be equivalent. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you abdicate your responsibility, the by far the worse of the two candidates wins, and millions of people will suffer and even die.

 

I have a responsibility to my children, friends, and relatives to stop the Trump nightmare from happening, to the extent that I'm able to. You have the same responsibility. If that entails voting for a Biden you don't like, so be it. It still beats the crap out of the alternative.

 

And please don't dismiss my warning as hyperbole. The danger is imminent; the danger is real; the consequences will be horrible.

 

Just to name one of many awful outcomes, I don't want to see millions of brown people rounded up, beaten, and herded into concentration camps. To name another, I don't want to see doctors imprisoned because they performed an abortion to save a woman's life. I don't want to see a judge arrested because he passed sentence on a Jan. 6 rioter. And I don't want the price of every imported good to double because some orange moron thinks tariffs are a swell idea.


Never said I wasn't going to vote.  I will and it will be for Biden, because he is the better of the two candidates and more in line with my political views.    My response was more about the fact that, out of all the people in our country, these are the two we have running for President, and that's pitiful.   

Originally posted by: Jerry Ice 33

We are actually in agreement on a lot of stuff here.  What I mean with Jill is......she should have stepped in a long ago. (not during or right before the debate)  And she disgustingly doubled-down at the after parties with it.  She is with the man every day and it is literally her duty to protect him.  Is she really putting politics or her status above that?  Incredibly sad if so and that appears to be the case.   

 

Joe was a habitual liar in his younger days but now he doesn't have the ability.  He can barely stick to the company lines he is supposed to memorize.  They get jumbled in his head and he starts spitting out the wrong line when he gets "stuck."  

 

For Trump it is just his character in general for me.  He is just purely a POS.  Did you hear when he boasted about firing that General?  The guy gets off on firing people.  He probably fired tons of good people during his 4 years as POTUS that were doing a good job.  Who wants that?  You disagree with the emporer and you get fired.  How is that good for anybody?  

 

Put all poltics aside for one minute on this forum......why can't both parties just can both of these idiots for very different reasons and put up some competent people?  Rewrite the rules around it.  Do what is right!


We are definitely seeing now why Washington warned the nation about the danger of politicial parties in 1796.  

 

From Washington's Farewell Address:

"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.

 

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

 

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."

 

In the bolded part at the end, that sure sounds like MAGA.   Thoughts?

Originally posted by: Edso

We are definitely seeing now why Washington warned the nation about the danger of politicial parties in 1796.  

 

From Washington's Farewell Address:

"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.

 

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

 

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."

 

In the bolded part at the end, that sure sounds like MAGA.   Thoughts?


Certainly an eloquent statement, and one of a simple truth. While I don't want to track down other quotes right now, I'm fairly sure that many statesmen and authors (Churchill and Asimov come to mind) have said the same thing: People are often quite willing, sometimes eager, to forfeit their freedom in exchange for security, 

 

Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

So that's why so many MAGA morons are willing to ignore Trump's boatload of horrid qualities: they can be pretty sure that he wants to be and will be a dictator and that their freedoms will diappear. That is very appealing to them. Sad and kind of inexplicable, but true.

 

However, that isn't really the source of what bothers Jerry. For one thing, his estimation that "the system" has produced two terrible candidates is wrong. It has produced one lousy candidate and one existentially horrible candidate. To explain that, one only has to take a look at the spoken philosophies of both political parties.

 

Without expounding too much on the above, I just want to point out, as an example, the gulf between how each group regards people who are "different" (gay, non-white, transgender, immigrants) and how they should be treated:

 

Republicans: These people make me feel icky and therefore, they should be exterminated.

Democrats: These people are often discriminated against and therefore, should be protected.

 

And we nominate and elect candidates who support one or the other of these divergent points of view.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Certainly an eloquent statement, and one of a simple truth. While I don't want to track down other quotes right now, I'm fairly sure that many statesmen and authors (Churchill and Asimov come to mind) have said the same thing: People are often quite willing, sometimes eager, to forfeit their freedom in exchange for security, 

 

Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

So that's why so many MAGA morons are willing to ignore Trump's boatload of horrid qualities: they can be pretty sure that he wants to be and will be a dictator and that their freedoms will diappear. That is very appealing to them. Sad and kind of inexplicable, but true.

 

However, that isn't really the source of what bothers Jerry. For one thing, his estimation that "the system" has produced two terrible candidates is wrong. It has produced one lousy candidate and one existentially horrible candidate. To explain that, one only has to take a look at the spoken philosophies of both political parties.

 

Without expounding too much on the above, I just want to point out, as an example, the gulf between how each group regards people who are "different" (gay, non-white, transgender, immigrants) and how they should be treated:

 

Republicans: These people make me feel icky and therefore, they should be exterminated.

Democrats: These people are often discriminated against and therefore, should be protected.

 

And we nominate and elect candidates who support one or the other of these divergent points of view.


               Stop with the bullshit "dictator" lie. Americans have more freedoms that any other people in the world. Moronic liberals rail on about how their freedoms are being taken away - which is bullshit. You imbeciles think that anyone should be allowed to do anyhing at any time to anyone without any commn sense laws or rules. All you do is bitch, bitch bitch. 


Republicans: These people make me feel icky and therefore, they should be exterminated.

 

Really?!?  Nobody thinks like that.  Now you are being like Trump.  

Originally posted by: Jerry Ice 33

Republicans: These people make me feel icky and therefore, they should be exterminated.

 

Really?!?  Nobody thinks like that.  Now you are being like Trump.  


  I agree with you asking Lewis "really" - but what I don't agree with is your comment of -Now you are being like Trump. - Please show where President Trump is doing -or -has done as you say.

Originally posted by: Jerry Ice 33

Republicans: These people make me feel icky and therefore, they should be exterminated.

 

Really?!?  Nobody thinks like that.  Now you are being like Trump.  


Then can you explain the truly ridiculous amount of effort expended by the RepubliQ to persecute and (hopefully, from their point of view) eliminate all these various groups that are "different"? 

 

I disagree with you. I've heard this sentiment expressed many, many, many times over the years, Usually, it's coupled with some self-justifying twaddle about how "they" don't do something the way we do and therefore, they're scum/criminals/etc. Think back over the centuries of human history about "they." They don't practice the same religion. They don't look like us. They don't eat the same food. They don't wear the same kind of clothes. They don't believe in (insert anything). And it's a tiny, tiny, almost imperceptable step from that to a pretext for treating them differently (as in, worse) than "normal" people.

 

And perhaps "exterminated" is hyperbole, and maybe to be accurate, should be "driven out of the country" instead. But I can't help but recall that the Nazis in, say, 1937, didn't yet advocate for the extermination of the Jews, either. The necessary step of marginalizing and demeaning them had to come first.

 

Likewise, I can foresee the simple state of being an immigrant a crime under the Trumpf administration. Because they make his followers feel icky.

Originally posted by: David Miller

  I agree with you asking Lewis "really" - but what I don't agree with is your comment of -Now you are being like Trump. - Please show where President Trump is doing -or -has done as you say.


If Jerry is accusing me of exaggeration or hyperbole, then, any reasonable person could watch the recent debate and find literally dozens of instances of exaggeration and/or hyperbole by Trump. I'm not going to bother to list them for you--even you can see it, though you don't have the balls to admit it.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

If Jerry is accusing me of exaggeration or hyperbole, then, any reasonable person could watch the recent debate and find literally dozens of instances of exaggeration and/or hyperbole by Trump. I'm not going to bother to list them for you--even you can see it, though you don't have the balls to admit it.


  Lewis continues to confuse telling the truth with exaggeration or hyperbole. He won't post a list because there is none.

Only a complete fool would equate Trump's ridiculous exaggerations with "DA TROOT."

 

 

Edited on Jun 30, 2024 12:38pm
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