Gun love

Kevin Lewis notes: "I can only accept the list DonDiego provided on the dubious premise that there are only ten cities in the US. If that's not true, then the list is incomplete and no conclusions can be drawn from it."

DonDiego is pleased to note that he has no control of whatever Kevin Lewis accepts or rejects.

DonDiego did his best to provide some data within a-mite-over-4-hours of Kevin Lewis' request.

He has no objection to Kevin Lewis providing additional data; perhaps it would show an overwhelming incident of gun violence overall in Republican-majority cities!   Yeah, . . that's the ticket, . . . perhaps . . . just maybe . . .

Something New:

In his quest for information on the matter of reducing gun-violence poor old DonDiego came across a summary of the results of a study on how best to reduce gun violence without abolishing that pesky 2nd Amendment:

"The underlying goal of firearm policy should be to find the most effective ways of limiting access to firearms among individuals who are shown to be potentially dangerous based on their criminal history without casting the net so wide as to prevent law-abiding citizens from purchasing or possessing guns. This is precisely what our research suggests would be most effective: identifying people who are at the highest risk for violence based on a past history of violence or the presence of a restraining order and stringently enforcing that gun possession prohibition."

boldface added - DD

Ref: The Gun Control Laws That Are Most Likely to Work

For the record poor old DonDiego has no history of violence, . . . except for that one time when he was 12-or-so that he threw Frank [last name witheld] to the ground after he had bent poor young DonDiego's fingers backward at the bottom of a pileup in a friendly game of football.  Frank was supposedly the "tough-guy" in our class until then.  And even that incident hasn't been documented, . . . until now. 

Such measures would have virtually no effect on gun violence in the home, which is what I've been attempting to talk about.

I also don't give a rat's rectum about the various interpretations of the Second Amendment, because I've already stipulated that yes, anyone can own guns, if it makes them feel safe or manly or whatever.

I have the unmistakable feeling that DonDiego isn't considering the fact that most gun deaths in this country are suicides. Hence, the problem is easy access to guns--TOO easy--and while I don't know the exact statistics, I've read that most suicides do occur in the home.

It's all too common that someone gets drunk and depressed and goes upstairs and pulls that handy handgun out of the dresser drawer. And ironically, that person usually bought that gun for personal safety.

 Kevin says-"It's all too common that someone gets drunk and depressed and goes upstairs and pulls that handy handgun out of the dresser drawer. And ironically, that person usually bought that gun for personal safety." ------ I say, "So what is the problem here? Obviously this "person" is unstable and is doing everyone, including himself, a favor by preventing himself from harming others. A win-win if there ever was.

Dear God, that's stupid. A person who is worthy of living, in Stalker's exalted view, could still become depressed and suicidal.

Or maybe Stalker is in favor of over-the-counter suicide pills available at Walgreen's? After all, per Stalker, anyone "unstable" is unworthy of life.

You're a cruel person, Stalker.

If all the handguns in the US were confiscated, it wouldn't significantly impact the suicide rate in the long run.  Why?  Because gun control only addresses a common tool for suicide, not the root causes of mental illness. 

In Economics there is a well known Subsitution Effect when commodities become scarce or too expensive.  If people don't have easy access to guns, they'll substitue other means for their demise.  Then, those of Kevin's ilk will begin decrying the easy access to ropes, poison, balconies, bridges and automobile exhaust.  We must outlaw them all!  Think of the children!

Your premise that suicide is a manifestation of mental illness is grossly incorrect.

Suicide rates more than triple when handguns are in the home. This suggests that while, yes, duh, there are other ways to kill yourself, a handgun makes it easier.

Kevin Lewis writes: "Your premise that suicide is a manifestation of mental illness is grossly incorrect."

The psychiatrists who write for the Journal of the American Medical Society disagree.

For example:

"As part of the Taiwan Aboriginal Study Project, a case-control study of suicide among two aboriginal groups and the Han Chinese was carried out in East Taiwan.

In all three groups, a high proportion of suicides suffered from mental illness before committing suicide (97% to 100%). The two most prevalent psychiatric disorders were depression and alcoholism, and the most common comorbid pattern was depression with substance use disorders. The risk for suicide was significantly associated with all of these psychiatric conditions, previous suicide attempts, and a family history of suicide and depression. Fifty-one percent of all suicides had consulted medical professionals in the previous month."

Ref: JAMA Psychiatry

Hmm, . . . 97% to 100% of suicides preceded by mental illness; yep, that sounds pretty much like a manifestation to poor old DonDiego. 

Or, maybe an article from the National Center for Biotechnology might shed some light.

"Suicide is a major health problem, and the global suicide mortality rate amounts to 1.4% of all deaths worldwide. Most suicides are related to psychiatric disease, with depression, substance use disorders and psychosis being the most relevant risk factors. However, anxiety, personality-, eating-, and trauma-related disorders, as well as organic mental disorders, also contribute."

Ref: NCBI

Hmm, . . . most suicides are related to psychiatric disease; well, it's not 97% to 100%, but it's "most".

97-100% sounds like bad data. And the focus only on Han Chinese and two aboriginal groups might very well have skewed the data.

In addition, the authors of the study defined alcoholism and mental depression as mental diseases. That's dubious at best.

At any rate, perfectly sane people take their own lives all the time. Life can become unbearable for any of a host of reasons, and I'm not going to be so judgmental as to say that suicide cannot be a rational act.

Our culture and others have glorified people who have deliberately sacrificed their lives, usually in battle but occasionally in other contexts as well. Were all the defenders at the Alamo mentally ill?

To clarify: suicide and/or suicidal ideation are not necessarily caused by mental illness.

But I would imagine that the easy availability of a handgun makes it easier for either a sane or a mentally ill person to commit suicide. National statistics bear that out.

As usual when faced with facts, kevin ignores them