The Medicare for all debate

Warren just released her Medicare for all financing plan. It is based on several assumptions, but those assumptions are reasonable. Nonetheless, she probably won't get much support for it:

1. The Republicans will almost certainly use the lie, "THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO TAKE AWAY YER HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!!" as a fundamental talking point and scare tactic. Amazingly, even some Democrats are buying into it. It's bullshit (Warren's plan is to PROVIDE health care to all citizens), but as some of the second-tier Democratic candidates are desperately trying to gain traction, they've used the issue as an attack strategy against Warren, shifting their focus away from Biden, who is fading.

2. The money is certainly there--IF the Trump tax yummies for the rich and big corporations are rescinded. That probably could happen with a Democratic House and White House, but it might not be implemented quickly. And the Trump deficits will have to be addressed, further slowing things down.

3. We've discovered (sadly) just how racist and bigoted this country really is, as Trump was elected and support for him persists. Therefore, the mantra "Health care is a human right" isn't at all accepted by much of this country, as it is in the rest of the civilized world. Many people in the US strongly oppose (even if they won't say so out loud) the idea of free health care for the "inferior" classes and races. A lot of people also think that if you can't work and make money, you deserve to die. I suspect that all of our Trumpers think those two things (not that what they think matters).

4. There's a general angst in the Democratic party that since the primary goal is to get rid of Trump, and the impeachment process won't do that (it'll die in the Senate), they need a Presidential candidate who won't present Trump with an easy target. Bernie or Warren: SOOOOOOCIALISM! THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY YER HEALTH CARE! Biden: the leftover residue from the Ukraine mess (as bullshit as that is, it's damaged him and would certainly be chewed on like an old bone if he won the nomination). Any of the other second-tier folks: they won't get the nomination, and if they do, every one has a vulnerability that will be exploited.

I actually don't understand all the Republican outrage over people getting health care, but they did burst a blood vessel trying to destroy Obamacare over a six-year period, and almost succeeded, so I have to conclude that outrage is genuine (after a fashion, anyway). It could be the same thing as the climate change debate: Big Pharma and health care providers are writing checks to Republicans. But I really think it's plain old racism: "AH DOESN'T WANTS MAH TAX DOLLAHS TO GO TO TAKING CARE OF SOME N***** B****!!!!!"

So, sadly, I think that Warren should just drop it and support a continuation and expansion of Obamacare. We're too primitive a society to implement universal health care, and we won't be advanced enough to do so until we get rid of all the nasty old rich white men who currently have a stranglehold on power.

**Cue Trumper insults**

 Kevin has truthfully stated -----" I actually don't understand".----- There is really nothing more fitting to say. 

I'd just like to ask Senator Warren two questions.  First, what does she think the average Medicare receipient is paying for their Medicare coverage, aside from all they've paid in over the years.......Many people think that Medicare for all, is free health care.....I assure you, Medicare is a lot of things, but free isn't one of them!

Second, when she eliminates everyone's health care and institutes Medicare for all, does that include House and Senate members?  Or do we continue to treat them like elitists?

I'd just like to see the look on her face.

Of course, with democrats neatly tucked away under cover of their favorite media personalities, no one would dare ask something like that.

Actually, NO ONE thinks it would be free. 

And whether Congresspersons and Senators would retain their health insurance plans is small beer.

I'm sure that Warren has thought all this out much more carefully than you have.

Stalker likes to quote half-sentences to distort what was said. He's a filthy liar.

As I understand it, both Sanders and Warren's plan would have no deductibles or co-pays. Premiums would be paid via the funding she mentioned.   Therefore, what people are currently paying for Medicare wouldn't be relevant as they no longer would be paying it.

However, you did point out the problem with "medicare for some."  There would be very few takers because people would have to pay the part A premium to buy-in. (This is the part government pays for those over 65).  Then they would have to pay a part B premium which normally isn't covered by the government. And most people would opt for a private supplement as well.  Add those all together and it would be expensive.  It is also unclear how the part B would be handled as usually there is a penalty for not opting into that when you are 65.  For example, if someone enrolled in part B at 35 under a "medicare for some" plan but then went back into the private system because they changed jobs, would they have to pay the part B penalty when they went back into the Medicare system?

Here is what I know for a fact. The current system is broken for anybody with a chronic illness or condition. The average out of pocket premium for an employer plan is now over 12k per year. (I am talking about the portion of premiums the employee pays after the employer pays their share.)  Add to this the $17.5k (nationwide average)for co-payments and deductibles and you are expected to pay $29,500 (call it 30k) per year if you or an immediate family member has a chronic condition.  Now that is only taking into account covered expenses.  With a chronic condition, you probably have a lot of things that aren't covered. Meaning you will have additional costs to add to the 30k per-year already pay to be fully insured under the current system.

I got kicked out of the Democratic Underground after explaining these numbers and pointing out this is also how Obama Care is set-up to work for those with chronic conditions. 

Oh, and Yes, any such system should include everyone. That is the only way to make it work.

I will not vote for a Presidential candidate in 2020 unless the candidate running on the Democratic ticket is advocating for a Universal Healthcare system. If Democrats have a nominee advocating for one of these half-assed systems or keeping the current system with a few tweaks, I'd rather have Trump destroy the whole system so everyone is in the same awful boat.  At least that way we would finally move beyond the idea that we have to account for profits to pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, pharmacy benefits managers, hospitals and doctors before we worry about patient care. 

We have proven, working models: Canada. Western Europe. Etc. And the only defense Republicans can offer to the question, "They are doing it. Why can't we?" is a specious package of nonsense about long wait times.

You see, unlike our Trumpers, who have no empathy and are horrid people, I understand what it's like to have a chronic condition and not be able to have it treated--or to face going bankrupt if you do have it treated. Not myself personally, but several others I know. Three different people whom I care for deeply literally had their lives saved by Obamacare. All the while, I was listening to Republicans yammer about SOOOOOCIALISM and how universal health care would bankrupt the country and the earth would spiral into the sun.

The simple fact--which Warren points out, but doesn't emphasize enough--is that when you take away profits for health care and drug providers and eliminate complex billing (one in every five dollars spent on health care is consumed by administrative costs), health care costs a LOT less. That's the reason it's twice as expensive here as anywhere else.

My model for this is the US post office. It's heavily subsidized--only about 1/4 of the cost of operations is paid for by stamps and fees--EEK OHGOD OHGOD OHGOD THAT'S SOCIALISM--and as a result, you can still mail a letter anywhere in the country for 55 cents. That's a taxpayer-subsidized benefit that NOBODY objects to. Now imagine that the Post Office was run for profit. It would cost about $3 to mail a letter (costs + profits). Now imagine someone saying that it should be government-subsidized. The Republicans would start howling because of all the fat checks they would no longer receive from the mailing industry.

Obamacare was supposed to save each family $2500 a year in premiums.  Instead, premiums continue to increase and deductibles and out of pocket expenses have skyrocketed.  Face it the ACA was a failure that did not live up to what we were promised.....affordable health care.

Now democrats want to completely gut President Obama's signature accomplishment with a federal government takeover of the medical insurance industry.  Why should we have any faith that a massive undertaking like eliminating the private medical insurance industry and handing it over to the federal government is going to work out well when they couldn't even deliver on their meager Obamacare promises?

They claim that we just need to remove the obscene insurance company and medical industry profits and raise taxes and that will lead to the fantasy land of free healthcare for all Americans.  Well if medical industry profits were to blame for lousy healthcare then we'd expect a large non-profit healthcare provider like Kaiser Permanente to be offering super low cost medical services and dominate the industry.  They dont.  We'd expect the 23 Obamacare co-ops started with $2.4 billion in federal loans to be thriving by now, driving the for-profit insurance companies out of business with profit free savings for their memebers.  Virtually every Obamacare co-op is now bankrupt.  Explain that.

Rather than risk the health insurance of all Americans why not try out the Medicare for All scam in a single liberal state...like California or New York?  Eliminate all private medical insurance, establish your wealth tax, tax your corporations and let the state offer free medical care for all.  Let's see how that works out and then decide whether it's something the rest of us should do.

Medicare for all, coming to you from the same people who spent 2.5 years investigating Trump while there was no evidence to do you.  Stupid and crooked people touting stupid and crooked legislation.

How does warrencare plan on paying for the $40+trillion deficit for the current medicare.  Since the govt cannot properly fund the present program, how can one expect the govt to properly fund this program?