The Medicare for all debate

All of you Trumpers need to read Warren's plan before you start raving about what it can and cannot do. Only then can you engage in a rational discussion about it.

No matter how it's structured, it's obvious that we are perfectly able to implement universal health care. Dozens of nations that have economic profiles similar to ours have it. There's no reason why we couldn't afford it. The only potential problem is that we have more Trumpers than other countries, and Trumpers hate the idea of the people they consider inferior getting free health care.

I'd also like to point out that Medicare funding problems were exacerbated by Trump's tax cuts for the wealthy and big corporations. So a major step in funding Medicare would be to get rid of Trump and his Republican lackeys and stooges.

Oh and by the way, Oregon already has a medical plan for which every resident is eligible. It's called the Oregon Health Plan and has been in place in one form or another since 1992. Low-income people get it for free; others pay a sliding scale of premiums, which are capped at a maximum of 133% of the national market rate regardless of preexisting or present condition. Medical treatment, prescriptions, vision, dental, and preventive care are all covered. No one can be turned down.

Somehow, Oregon has managed to fund this plan for more than two decades, even though Oregon is not a particularly wealthy state. Universal health care is very doable. It's a matter of political will rather than finances, as the ravings of Republicans show.

Well if Oregon has already solved the problem of high medical costs and universal coverage why doesn't every state just follow their fine example?  Then we don't need the federal government to take over the medical insurance industry.

Democrats couln't even get the Affordable Care Act to bring affordable heath care.  That's nothing compared to what Warren and Sanders are proposing.  In what imaginary world are we "Perfectly able to implement universal health care'?  Dozens of nations have certainly never replaced a massive private medical insurance industry with government run health insurance for hundreds of millions of people.  By the time a democrat house and senate and president and bureaucracy got through with this, it would be a catastrophe on a grand scale. 

And why are the democrats already trying to completely gut Obama's signature accomplishment?  That isn't going to give rational Americans any confidence that this is anything but another load of crap.

The Oregon health plan is only available to low income & is funded by the feds. 

Medicare is funded by Medicare taxes & has nothing to do with tax cuts. 

In any case the Medicare funding problem has been in place long before President Trump. 

As uaual, you only get a lying and deceitful collection of "facts" whenever Kevin posts his drivel. The Oregon "Health Plan" is just another government ( that means you and me, fellow tax payers) program put in place for those who , for what ever reasons ( thuthful and/or lying) are given another hand out. Just more lying bullshit from the consummate liar Kevin.

It's free shit for everone.  Utopia.

Originally posted by: Charles

Obamacare was supposed to save each family $2500 a year in premiums.  Instead, premiums continue to increase and deductibles and out of pocket expenses have skyrocketed.  Face it the ACA was a failure that did not live up to what we were promised.....affordable health care

Now democrats want to completely gut President Obama's signature accomplishment with a federal government takeover of the medical insurance industry.  Why should we have any faith that a massive undertaking like eliminating the private medical insurance industry and handing it over to the federal government is going to work out well when they couldn't even deliver on their meager Obamacare promises?

They claim that we just need to remove the obscene insurance company and medical industry profits and raise taxes and that will lead to the fantasy land of free healthcare for all Americans.  Well if medical industry profits were to blame for lousy healthcare then we'd expect a large non-profit healthcare provider like Kaiser Permanente to be offering super low cost medical services and dominate the industry.  They dont.  We'd expect the 23 Obamacare co-ops started with $2.4 billion in federal loans to be thriving by now, driving the for-profit insurance companies out of business with profit free savings for their memebers.  Virtually every Obamacare co-op is now bankrupt.  Explain that.

Rather than risk the health insurance of all Americans why not try out the Medicare for All scam in a single liberal state...like California or New York?  Eliminate all private medical insurance, establish your wealth tax, tax your corporations and let the state offer free medical care for all.  Let's see how that works out and then decide whether it's something the rest of us should do.

Charles, where to begin?

Yes, Obama said it would save $2,500 in premiums. I suppose it is a matter of how you look at it. Are current premiums $2500 lower than they would have been under the then existing system? Yes, they are. 

I pointed out at the time (here at LVA) that Obamacare was at best a bandage to keep the current private system going a little bit longer and that is what it has done. Premiums will continue to skyrocket and would even more so under an Obamacare repeal. We know this because when Republicans voted on their various repeal bills the CBO scored them.  The CBO said premiums would go up more without Obamacare. Is your position repeal Obamacare so premiums can go up even more? 

We should have faith because the math works. 

Under the current system, insurance companies have to generate massive profits to offset high executive compensation and return an annual increase in profits year over year to keep the shareholders happy. 

Under the current system, we have to pay Insurance agents a commission to sell policies.

Under the current system, pharmaceutical companies have to generate massive profits to offset high executive compensation and return an annual increase in profits year over year to keep the shareholders happy. 

Under the current system, pharmaceutical benefits management companies have to generate massive profits to offset high executive compensation and return an annual increase in profits year over year to keep the shareholders happy. Most people don't even know these unnecessary middlemen exist in the supply chain. They are best thought of as a distributor that buys the pharmaceuticals directly from the company that manufactures them, marks them up and then sells them to the pharmacy you buy the from. 

We can get rid of all of this unnecessary fat by going to a system similar to what the rest of the world has. It isn't just a matter of getting rid of the insurance company. 

We have already had a market failure, so it is time for the government to do a job that nobody else can. Maintaining the private system is asking the government to continue to fund billion-dollar for-profit businesses just for the sake of calling the healthcare system private. It is like the government paying farmers to grow crops there is no market demand for or the government paying automobile manufacturers to produce cars there is no demand for. 

What do I mean by market failure?  If you employ actuarial science, to devise a health insurance premium for a plan that would accept everyone and have the co-pays and deductibles of 25-30 years ago only the top 5% of earners could afford a policy.  That is why the current system is so fucked up.  Companies are forced to pay a portion of employees' premiums because the employees can't afford the premium otherwise.  In the case of those working for a company that doesn't offer insurance, the self-employed and so on, under Obamacare the government pays that portion of the premium an employer would have in the past. What you are left with is a system that forces both the government and large corporations to subsidize these parasites just so the healthcare system can be called private.  

If I want to start a business to keep myself employed even though nobody in the marketplace can afford my product or service, should the government and private companies be forced to subsidize the costs of my product/service so I can stay in business? And if so should I be kept in lavish style with huge executive compensation for myself?  

So the problem is a few people making to much money. 

The fact that 5% of the population uses 30% of the resources is not an issue

Mark & co continue to ignore the $40 trillion deficit that the present Medicare system has. 

No, Tom, the problem, in a nutshell, is 95% the population can't afford market based premiums. 

Again, Tom trots out his proposal to euthanize the 5% of the population that uses the most medical resources. 

Tom, you overhaul the whole healthcare system that is how you fix it. A tweak here and there every few years doesn't deal with the problem.