The President of the United States of America, flips off a heckler

Just admit you didn't read his initial post correctly and move on, Kevin.   He just said both sides violate the Constitution and never quantified it with a number, you did.  You need to stop manifesting your MAGA hatred to posts that LiveFree makes, because, by now you should realize he may be conservative, but is not MAGA.  Not all conservatives are MAGA, just like not all Democrats are far left liberals, like yourself.  

How about you just enjoy actual political conversation with someone that does not share your particular views, that makes points with good intentions and not with verbal attacks. 

I for one appreciate LiveFree's interactions in the Sink and in the other Forums on LVA.  

Well, it seems like you're OK with calling me a "far left liberal," which you obviously meant to be pejorative. Double standards are fun! And I've never said or implied that he's MAGA. I concur with you, and I've said many times, that his contributions are valuable (whether you've seen or want to acknowledge that or not).

I'll repeat that "both sides do it" is not a valid defense to anything. It has the tone of an apologia. I also am getting rather sick of our MAGAs constantly excusing their orange master's crimes by saying "them too." LiveFree doesn't do that, but his multiple references to what Clinton or Obama supposedly did are utterly irrelevant to what the Orange Fuck-pig is doing now.

And I'm proud to be a far-right liberal radical radical liberal belch grunt snort honk honk honk.

Your apology is appreciated and accepted. 

My intent when mentioning violations on both sides is not to do the typical them too them too arguments to justify the wrong of another. Nor is it to try to claim equivalency. 

My intent is often to either preempt such arguments by acknowledging that the "other side" has violations too before they can falsely accuse me of supporting such violations. Or to refute their them to them too argument by acknowledging those wrongs and taking the wind out of their sail. 

I think part of it too is that I tend to look at these things with a longer historical context. I think most people look at things over the last couple decades but I'm looking at the last couple centuries.Example:  I know the "dixiecrats" were a long time ago, Heck I wasn't even born.  However when I think Democrats I still have a hard time getting people like Stom Thermon out of my head. When I think of Republicans I can't remove the party's abolitionist movement from my head. 

I agree with your assessment that the "violation ratio" between the two major parties has changed a lot over the years. I agree that it has been exponentially worse with Trump. 

OK, got it. I used to have a historical perspective not unlike yours. However, a lot of the Trump diarrhea bathing the nation is unprecedented in scope, harm caused, and sheer brazenness. A LOT of people, myself included, have said, "Well, he can't fuck with THAT...can he? Oh my God!" So there's really nothing in the past to compare the present situation to.

I have, though, expressed historical parallels to other events when a democracy was devoured by fascism. That's kind of a "big picture" perspective in that how a dictator rose to power is of secondary importance, because the playbook is always essentially the same. Sow fear. Always have a scapegoat group. Sell the premise that you alone are the savior of the nation. Cast your opponents as traitors. Repeat until emperor. What's of primary importance is how the people react to it. Usually, apathy is enough; democracies die if they're not fiercely defended. We have it even worse: about 40 percent of our electorate actively supports Trump fascism.

Fair enough.....be well. 

Thank you for your kind words. 

I can accept the label "conservative" but do so with a bit of hesitation and reluctance. I tend to prefer "classical liberal" or "libertarian" but even those are less than perfect. 

Which is why I object to Edso calling me a radical liberal liberal radical left-wing woke woke woke narco-terrorist. I don't think one word or phrase can describe my worldview and political affiliations. 

I do think that conservatism is a fundamental error, in that resisting change (the core element of conservatism) violates the human condition. I also don't like a philosophy based on fear.

Probably the closest term I would like to paste on my forehead is "utilitarian." The greatest good for the greatest number. Jeremy Bentham, if memory serves.

Thank you for the clarification.

Ditto, and well put, Edso.

Candy

Edso remarks that not all conservatives are MAGA, which is true, but how many Republican political officeholders have openly repudiated/defied MAGA and/or Trump? And how many Republican voters, for that matter? The latest idiocy about Greenland and new Trumpiffs has elicited a few timid squeaks from a couple or three Congresspersons and senators--" Maybe Glorious Dear Leader is making a very small mistake"--but for the most part, the silence has been deafening.

The brutal retaliation that apostates (Liz Cheney, for example) have received has intimidated everyone else into silence. I strongly suspect that if someone lives in a MAGA community and is disgusted by Trump, they keep that very much to themselves, to avoid being shot at, and in the coffee shop with the guys, they nod their heads vigorously in approval whenever the Orange Fucktard's latest crapola is discussed.

The Democrats have far less cohesion than the Republicans. There's constant squabbling about every issue, large and small. That doomed them in 2024. Biden hung on for too long, and to be clear, it was too long not necessarily because he was no longer capable, but because half the party thought he was. If Republicans were in a similar situation (and they may be soon, as the Turd's brain (or whatever he has up there) continues to crumble, they'll probably just shoot him, hiring someone with better aim than the last guy.