Restricting the power of the Presidency

Originally posted by: LiveFreeNW

I think the executive has gained way more power than many of the Framers anticipated. Some such as Hamilton probably wanted it. 

 

Many of the ant-federalists warned about this happening. 

 

I think that not only has the Executive Branch usurped power never intended but the Federal Government has done so as well. 

 

Read Article 1 section 8 and ask yourself how much of what the federal government does falls inside or outside of that list. 

 

As to how this could be fixed? I don't know. 

 

Thomas Jefferson in a letter about the Shays rebellion remarked that a similar rebellion ought to happen at least once every 20 years or so. That's when he came up with his quote about the tree of Liberty being refreshed from time to time. 

 

A year later in a letter to James Madison, Jefferson remarked that every constitution and every law ought to expire after about 20 years. Jefferson felt that no current generation has the right to put laws or debts onto the next generation. Reasoning that the Earth belongs to the living generation. 

 

I think The Constitution needs several amendments. Probably more than would realistically pass. Also I fear the results of a Constitutional Convention.

 

I think that if a convention were held today nearly all semblance of state independence would be removed and most power within the federal government would be concentrated with the executive and the president. We would end up with some sort of constitutional monarchy. 

 

 

 


Which specific amendments would you propose? Term limits (yay), balanced budget ( absolutely), government spending limitations ( no shit)? Though 20 states have passed a resolution to potentially enact a Convention of States as outlined in the Constitution as an alternative amendment process, they'd need 34 states to convene and apply to Congress followed by ratification from 38 states ( three-fourths of the total) for any proposed amendments. That's an astronomical limitation in that the great grand majority of the current 20 supporting states are generally conservative entities that basically want to limit government overeach and power. It's appealing from where I personally  sit but I don't think there's enough additional resource numbers on this side to ever realistically accomplish it in the flesh ( at least under the present conditions). I think that's reality and that any amendments will just have to be enacted the old fashioned way by Congress. Vote, scream, piss, moan, denigrate, argue, deflect, and elect et al by majority...all on TV no less. 

 

Further the Constitution does not outline a defined process for procedures and rules for this Convention of States alternative amendment issue. Those would need to be created and legislated which would necessarily lead to further dissension and conflict ( which we may not in fact need currently). 

 

I say we all watch Gunsmoke and football in season; or employ alternate forms of distraction from the historical divide. Maybe throw in a Vegas trip now and then just to escape?

 

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Well, we certainly have a stark example of why the President has too much power and not NEARLY enough checks on his actions. The Blundering Fathers thought, first of all, that the President would be a man of integrity. They never anticipated something like Trump holding the office. And back then, political parties weren't nearly as dominant as they are now. They never thought that the President's party could, or would, form a monolithic bloc that gave him complete carte blanche. They also thought that SCOTUS would be a check. Instead, packed with Trump lackeys, it's merely a rubber stamp.

 

I honestly don't see how this can be fixed. MAGA is feverishly working to ensure that they "win" every election from this day on. And Trump isn't even the problem going forward; he'll croak soon. But something even worse may replace him.

 

I don't want to be pessimistic, but I can't see our battered democracy surviving. What about you?

 

What can we do, if anything, to ensure that no Turds ever inhabit the White House again?


You just have to view the problem as a child and summon naive optimism that it ( our democracy, so to speak) in fact will survive. It survived the initial 250 years of its existence which involved unimaginable conflicts. In the short term you and your side have the midterms coming up and historically ( generally speaking) the opposing party does well in those circumstances. You need to have optimistic faith in somethin to subsist and to coddle the changes that you'd prefer. I don't know how you ensure that any individual or type of individual stays out the White House beyond voting ( or maybe via forming a well-heeled lobbying / political action group). Get yourself a few hundred billion in the bank..that'd help. 

Originally posted by: Nines

You just have to view the problem as a child and summon naive optimism that it ( our democracy, so to speak) in fact will survive. It survived the initial 250 years of its existence which involved unimaginable conflicts. In the short term you and your side have the midterms coming up and historically ( generally speaking) the opposing party does well in those circumstances. You need to have optimistic faith in somethin to subsist and to coddle the changes that you'd prefer. I don't know how you ensure that any individual or type of individual stays out the White House beyond voting ( or maybe via forming a well-heeled lobbying / political action group). Get yourself a few hundred billion in the bank..that'd help. 


The Republipigs are working feverishly to ensure that the midterms are not fair. And even if they are fair, they will probably retain the Senate, and of course the Orange Shitstain will remain in the White House. The best we can hope for is to take the House, which will at least stop a lot of the Turd's shit.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

The Republipigs are working feverishly to ensure that the midterms are not fair. And even if they are fair, they will probably retain the Senate, and of course the Orange Shitstain will remain in the White House. The best we can hope for is to take the House, which will at least stop a lot of the Turd's shit.


How are the R's trying to sabotage the midterms ( I mean beyond normal mike op stuff)? You referring to redrawing of congressional districts / gerrymandering, etc? Both major parties engage in that, right? Those monkey see, monkey do practices have been going on forever and historically by both major parties; doesn't make it right per se but it's rather become  SOP in the bipartisan political conflict. It's a common weapon of our esteemed political parties.  I can see why you'd be concerned about the current SCOTUS makeup in this fight, though; eg the Texas GOP decision in December. Sometimes one just has to be able to take a punch, ya know?


Originally posted by: Nines

How are the R's trying to sabotage the midterms ( I mean beyond normal mike op stuff)? You referring to redrawing of congressional districts / gerrymandering, etc? Both major parties engage in that, right? Those monkey see, monkey do practices have been going on forever and historically by both major parties; doesn't make it right per se but it's rather become  SOP in the bipartisan political conflict. It's a common weapon of our esteemed political parties.  I can see why you'd be concerned about the current SCOTUS makeup in this fight, though; eg the Texas GOP decision in December. Sometimes one just has to be able to take a punch, ya know?


The really egregious Republipig gerrymandering was started in Tay-ucks-ass and spread to other red states. California followed suit, but unlike the decrees issued in MAGA Land, the redistricting was approved by the voters. Trump has ordered the Republipigs to steal as many House seats as possible, and since they hate democracy, they've done so by decree.

 

Here's the number of House seats each party stands to gain from redistricting efforts, as of Jan 15:

 

Democrats: 9

Republicans: 31

 

The Pig Plan is to offset the all but inevitable midterm losses by blotting out millions of Democrat votes. The Pigs are worried, though, that even that might not be enough. That's why they're training ICE agents to be "election monitors" in blue districts. Automatic weapons and all.

 

While we can't credit Trump with anything resembling thinking or planning, the Grand Pig Strategy is and has been to impose ironclad one-party rule on our nation. There's not even anything original about it. Study how democracy died in various nations throughout history, and the playbook is always the same.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

The really egregious Republipig gerrymandering was started in Tay-ucks-ass and spread to other red states. California followed suit, but unlike the decrees issued in MAGA Land, the redistricting was approved by the voters. Trump has ordered the Republipigs to steal as many House seats as possible, and since they hate democracy, they've done so by decree.

 

Here's the number of House seats each party stands to gain from redistricting efforts, as of Jan 15:

 

Democrats: 9

Republicans: 31

 

The Pig Plan is to offset the all but inevitable midterm losses by blotting out millions of Democrat votes. The Pigs are worried, though, that even that might not be enough. That's why they're training ICE agents to be "election monitors" in blue districts. Automatic weapons and all.

 

While we can't credit Trump with anything resembling thinking or planning, the Grand Pig Strategy is and has been to impose ironclad one-party rule on our nation. There's not even anything original about it. Study how democracy died in various nations throughout history, and the playbook is always the same.


All the pre-midterm polls ( for whatever those might be worth) strongly suggest a national GOP disaster. In light of that, midterm outcome history, and your general disdain and denouncement of Trump and associated policies leads me to ask why you're so concerned about it all? Why does it appear to rule your existence? If he and his policies turn off the electorate ( including you) as indicated then his reach gets cut off by our long standing check systems. All indicators somewhat point that way. Have a beer,etc. 

Originally posted by: Nines

All the pre-midterm polls ( for whatever those might be worth) strongly suggest a national GOP disaster. In light of that, midterm outcome history, and your general disdain and denouncement of Trump and associated policies leads me to ask why you're so concerned about it all? Why does it appear to rule your existence? If he and his policies turn off the electorate ( including you) as indicated then his reach gets cut off by our long standing check systems. All indicators somewhat point that way. Have a beer,etc. 


We have a couple of posters who LUVVVV to ask questions based on false premises; such questions are logically unanswerable. Why do you still beat your wife? Why are there purple giraffes on the moon? Your "Why does it appear to rule your existence?" is such a question, and a cheapo tactic not worthy of you.

 

You might enlighten me on just how "the electorate" can stop Trump's tariffs, his conquest plans, his deployment of thugs to cities that didn't vote for him, etc. etc. etc. etc. All those things are very unpopular, as is Trump himself. Yet, we have no FUNCTIONAL "long-standing check systems":

 

Both the House and the Senate are controlled by Republicans who far from even questioning Trump's nonsense, are slavishly loyal and obedient to him.

 

SCOTUS as well as many lower courts are packed with Trump appointees who serve him utterly rather than doing their jobs.

 

Of the three bodies mentioned above, there's only a realistic chance of Democrats retaking the House. The Senate and SCOTUS are completely out of reach.

 

The Republipigs are losing state and local elections left and right, but none of that will affect federal policy. And with his multiple invasions of American cities, Trump is signaling that he has no regard for and will casually ignore state and city rights.

 

I also view as a distinctly nonzero possibility that when the electorate comes riding up on their white horses to save the day, the Republipigs will fuck with the process somehow...such as what Tay-ucks-ass did when they closed all the polling stations but one in an area of Houston that contained four million people (Democrat voters, for the most part). They also tried to invalidate election results, most egregiously in Georgia. So given their total control of government and the courts, they're going to be even bolder this time around.

 

You and I differ on the supposed resilience of our democracy. I think it's dying. You think it can't be killed. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

 

As to your purple giraffes question, this issue concerns me because I love my country and I don't want to see it disappear.

 

And I always thought that protestors being shot in the streets by government forces was something that only happened with dictatorships.

@ Kevin..

A lot of the tariffs were instituted via executive orders. In light of that the next administration could in fact rescind them which has been common by incoming opposing admins,  though some / many would eventually end up in legal / court proceedings. Congress has some plenary power to revoke tariffs as well ( if / when the Dems are eventually in control of said Congress). Also SCOTUS is not done hearing or ruling on the constitutionality of some tariffs, either. The ultimate outcomes of the ones already ruled on by SCOTUS are awaiting the appeals courts. 

 

The resilience of our 'democracy' is backed by 250 years involving all kinds of major historical conflicts and it's still here though the edges are a bit tattered and worn ( likely always been that way in general). I'll choose to bank on that history until some incontrovertible catastrophe cuts its legs off; I get that you believe Trump is that event and I just disagree. But the beer still sounds appropriate. 

Edited on Feb 3, 2026 3:11pm
Originally posted by: Nines

@ Kevin..

A lot of the tariffs were instituted via executive orders. In light of that the next administration could in fact rescind them which has been common by incoming opposing admins,  though some / many would eventually end up in legal / court proceedings. Congress has some plenary power to revoke tariffs as well ( if / when the Dems are eventually in control of said Congress). Also SCOTUS is not done hearing or ruling on the constitutionality of some tariffs, either. The ultimate outcomes of the ones already ruled on by SCOTUS are awaiting the appeals courts. 

 

The resilience of our 'democracy' is backed by 250 years involving all kinds of major historical conflicts and it's still here though the edges are a bit tattered and worn ( likely always been that way in general). I'll choose to bank on that history until some incontrovertible catastrophe cuts its legs off; I get that you believe Trump is that event and I just disagree. But the beer still sounds appropriate. 


The Turdiffs will persist at least until early 2029, and they may get worse. If a Republipig winds up in the Oval Office, he will NEVER cancel the Turdiffs, as that would effectively say, "The favorite economic policy of our wise and noble Dear Leader was a bunch of caca." Blasphemy! Unforgivable!

 

SCOTUS is nothing but a subservient Trump appendage, and so far they have NEVER prevented the Turd from doing anything, lawful or unlawful, so I take no comfort from their existence.

 

We have indeed been through many trials as a nation, but we've never been ruled by a chief executive who is so blatantly evil and has such contemptuous disregard for the law --and is slavishly adored and supported by tens of millions of idiots. This situation is tragically exposing the weakness of our governmental system. Chief executive overreach was supposed to be checked by the other two branches, but the Founders never made allowances for one-party rule. They probably couldn't imagine legislators and judges valuing party loyalty over their responsibilities, duties, and obligation to follow the law.

There's an old engineering adage, you can design things to prevent failure due to stupidity and negligence, but not sabotage.

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