The results of Biden policy

"Unemployment insurance is a disincentive to employment." This is a standard, even core conservative shibboleth. An unshakable belief. Never questioned, any more then "Democrats eat babies," "The liberals are trying to destroy America," "Obama is a space alien," or "Guns for toddlers." I know that Boiler will never be able, let alone inclined, to consider whether it's actually true or not. Likewise, Stalker won't stop playing the overripe zit long enough to do that. But you might.

Let's treat "Unemployment insurance is a disincentive to employment" as a hypothesis rather than a chiseled-in-granite absolute indisputable truth. How would you test that hypothesis? The best way to test any hypothesis is by a natural experiment. A corollary to that hypothesis would be: "If unemployment insurance is removed, then unemployment will decrease." Do we have an experiment available? Happily, yes! We have all the Trumper states where the Republican governors choked off unemployment benefits in June. If the sacred Republican mantra is true, then those states would have seen huge decreases in unemployment.

Except...they didn't. The decreases were minuscule.

Now, I know Stalker will do nothing but scream and call me a liar, and Boiler will do nothing but state some irrelevant un-fact. But perhaps you are capable of actually considering this question: Why didn't those states see a significant improvement in employment?

Is the holy Republican unemployment mantra nothing but a steamin' heap o' hooey?

Unemployment insurance isn't "giving people money not to work" any more than fire insurance is giving people money to burn their houses down, auto insurance is giving people money to crash their cars, or life insurance is giving people money to die.

News flash: people who receive unemployment insurance have PAID for it, via payroll deductions. You working class hero RepubliQs don't know that??

It's a RepubliQ sacred mantra, believed without question by Boiler, Stalker, and their kind (as well as Republican governors), but it's complete and utter bullshit. PJ pointed out data that refute it. They ignored that, because they have no answer for it. Why didn't all the states where Republican governors choked off unemployment benefits see massive decreases in unemployment? According to that sacred mantra, they should have.

Kevin:  I appreciate your answer.  I really do. 

You are right on cutting off U/C benefits and it marginally helping unemployment in states that have done it.  But where I tend to lean is it just shows even more the lazy asses that don't want to work.  

But Unemployment insurance is NOT paid for by employees and taken via payroll deductions.  It is a 100% company-paid expense.  (Remember, I'm the Finance guy here)  Not one dime of U/C is paid for directly from employees.  So on this one, you are wrong.  I think you are confusing it with short-term or long-term disability so you will have to apologize to the working class hero ReplubliQs

Companies pay into an U/C "reserve" for employees.  The more their reserve account gets tapped, the more the feds and states will charge the companies as their % goes up the next year in a typical year.  Covid was a bit different obviously.  The Fed uses form 940.  Each state has their own form.  The U/C returns are done quarterly and adjustments can be made to the companies %'s quarterly but usually annually in most states.  

If you want to know the real reason why healtcare facilities are struggling to find help right now?  Its three-fold.

1) Healthcare Workers dont want to get COVID

2) Healthcare workers are quitting because of extraordinary overtime to take care of anti-vax retards  And its burning them out.

3) Healthcare workers are quitting because of beligerant anti-vaxers who assault healtcare workers because they dont want to wear a mask...or because they think nurses liberal boogeymen trying to kill them.

Mouthbreathing thugs like to assault the heroes at the center of the COVID fight

Whose policy is that?  Pretty sure its not Biden's.

Oh, come on. Do you seriously think that those deductions aren't actually paid for by employees? From cbpp.org:

While technically, employers pay both the federal and state (unemployment) taxes, economists generally regard the tax as falling on workers on the theory that the dollars employers pay in tax would otherwise go into employees' paychecks.

In the same fashion, 100% of Social Security tax is actually paid for by employees, because the half that employers ostensibly pay is money they could/would otherwise pay in salaries. Employers pay salaries based on the total cost of employing workers, which includes all the taxes they have to pay on behalf of those workers. Therefore, if not for UI and SSI taxes employers must pay, workers would earn larger paychecks--which means that those taxes are actually costs borne by the workers.

As far as the original topic is concerned: I don't see how you conclude that everybody is being a lazy ass. The data I referred to, in fact, confirms the opposite: that people are staying away from jobs for reasons other than, as you put it, laziness.

This topic has been extensively discussed by people much more knowledgeable than you or I. The consensus seems to be that a) while there are jobs available, many of them are low-paying and/or part-time; b) many workers continue to be unable to regain former positions due to the businesses/sectors they worked in remaining closed or dialed back; c) many potential workers cite continuing health concerns, especially if they might be returning to work environments where masks aren't mandatory and/or vaccinations are not required; d) child care necessities have kept many people home, since many schools only recently reopened.

Ironically, many of the Republican governors' decrees, such as forbidding vaccination mandates, have made workplaces less attractive in their states. So they've been shooting themselves in the foot.

I lived in Northern Idaho for about six months. The state is absolutely beautiful (especially that region) but Jesus Christ, the people are absolute wackadoodle Trumper hyperconservative fanatics. Though for decades, they've been gun-loving extremists, recent events have sent them even further around the bend. They're now in full Tucker Carlson mode.

Really, this is now the nation's #1 nutball state, overtaking even Texas and Florida. They've even hatched a scheme to try to annex 3/4 of Oregon (from a geographical standpoint, that proportion of the state is conservative). What I find disgusting is that the covid deniers are now flooding Spokane's hospitals to the extent that needed care is being denied to Washingtonians. I think they should be forced to stay in their barbed-wire compounds and basement bunkers and die there.

Even though the information posted by PJ in the above post is factual, PJ forgot to add that what he posted is about an article about the state of Idaho. Idaho is only one of 50 states and not all states are facing these exact issues. As I have said before, I have received my 2 shots (and will be getting the booster when available), I also do not understand the reluctance of people to get vaccinated. So much of the push back of those refusing the vaccine is a direct result of the myriad number of contadictory reports about the vaccine and it's possible negative effects. Blame for the confusion is a direct result of the media - both conservative and liberal. But currently, the vaccine is the best we have to offer in getting control of this virus. Like every type of medication that has ever been developed, the vaccine will not/never be 100% effective for 100% of the people who get the vaccination. For over a year and a half the world has been fighting this virus. Nowhere in the world (that I know of) has been found a 100% solution for eradicating the virus. Given time, hopefully, a solution will be found. Until then, the vaccine has shown to be the best thing available. It works - not 100% effective, but it is a positive step in finding a cure. Healthcare workers should be praised for the job that they are doing and should be shown great respect. To the 3 reasons PJ has listed, I say 1) Healthcare workers should get vaccinated if that is the job they are trained for and are willing to do, 2) Not all people who become infected are unvaccinated. Granted, a large percentage of these new cases are unvaccinated - but many have been vaccinated, unlucky persons. 3) This is the first I have heard of this - it needs to stop. 

Kevin, you said "News flash: people who receive unemployment insurance have PAID for it, via payroll deductions."  There is no such thing.  Show me one W2 where U/C is taken out of a person's paycheck as a deduction.  Just admit that was wrong.  That is why I said they are not directly paying for it.  Now if you said through payroll reductions they are indirectly paying for it, that might make a little more sense.  Even then it is a pretty big jump to say companies would put that right back into employee wages if not paying U/C.  I've yet to see a company whose U/C reserve % has fallen just shuttle that $ right back into employee wages.  

Rest of your argument is good though.  Let me clarify.  The "lazy asses" are the ones that were doing the $15/hour jobs that will leak off U/C forever and ever instead of doing those jobs.  That is why I don't like it.  We can't just give $ away forever and not have socialism.  Show me where socialism works well? 

And PJ, I never said we are having trouble finding healthcare workers.  The place I work at is increasing wages and going above and beyond the normal pay ranges to attract and retain people because of a lot of what you said plus the fact inflation is off the charts do the "handout-way" of Biden and where he wants to take things.  You realize all these give-aways and huge proposals have to be paid somehow, right?  

My post was in response to the subject of this thread.

I'm bored with the Socialism debate.   Anti-socialists point to third word autocracies as proof socialism doesnt work.   They never seem to have the courage to look at Scandanavia, Canada, Japan, or South Korea.   The 20 happiest countries in the world have socialist giveaways far and beyond anything US Democrats are proposing.

Happiest countries in the world

And if you want to achieve the AMerican dream of going from rags to riches you have a far better chance of succeding in Socialist Europe than in America.  countries with highest social mobility

So to answer your question - Socialism works quite well in lots of places that aren't Bannana Republic dictatorships.    And thats not to say I favor adopting that form of government.  It is to say I dont waste breath arguing the benefits of a robust public sector with people who instintively blurt out "Venezuela" in response.

Oh, and yes, stuff needs to get paid for.   Its called taxes -    Something a record number of fortune 500 companies currently dont pay...and something Billionaries in this country pay fewer cents on the dollar than I do.    And speaking of Socialism....for some reason many anti-Socialists in this country favor the incredibly Socialist policy of subsidizing or drug companies instead of free market negotiation with their prices.   Thats pretty ironic, isn't it?

Have a great day.