Ronald Reagan - "Welcome to the Republican Party"

Originally posted by: Edso

Well said.  There are plenty of Liberal, Democrat citizens that own and carry firearms. He did say that most, not all of the gun advocates are MAGA.  

 

Matter of fact, my best friend is very liberal and hates Trump and MAGA as much, if not more than Kevin, but even he owns and carries a firearm.  It's a handgun, and not a semiautomatic rifle.  And he does have a CCW license.  

 

It is within Kevin's right to criticize the gun culture we have in the US, just like it's within your right to call him out on it.  

 

I appreciate how you make your comments with out disparaging others with personal attacks.  


Yeah, his personal atack on me was oblique, and contained a bit of stupid hyperbole about what I supposedly always do, but wasn't Miller-quality, at least.

 

Owning a gun, carrying a gun, etc. is grossly stupid, in that it makes your life and those of the people around you less safe, not safer. I can give you one example: many people keep guns in their homes because they fantasize about hearing a noise downstairs, grabbing their weapon(s), and stealthily getting the drop on the foul miscreant whose has entered their abode in the middle of the night. For every one time that actually happens and a criminal is apprehended, 500 children find the supposedly securely stored firearm and kill themselves or a playmate with it.

 

I don't think I have to expound on how people carrying guns makes fights and confrontations more lethal.

 

Obviously, people on all sides of the political divide own and carry guns. But I maintain that MAGA has made it part of their culture, and it's deeply embedded in the American "freedom/rugged individualist" ethos. That's why the Second Amendment has been distorted, far from its original intention and purpose.

Originally posted by: LiveFreeNW

The implication in your post is that any firearm owner, or anyone who disagrees with you about firearm ownership, or the right to carry must be a brainwashed MAGA idiot that can't think for themselves. Or have some sort of "personality disorder" as you put it. 

 

You imply that nobody could possibly have logical, rational, well-intentioned, and good faith reasons for owning or carrying firearms or even just disagreeing with you about this issue. 

 

The group you insulted was the roughly third of the country that either owns or carries firearms or supports the right to do so. The majority of which do so with moral, peaceful, and prudent intentions. 

 

 


Yes, common sense, as well as cold hard statistics, shows that gun ownership makes people's lives less safe, and frankly, even an idiot can figure that out. The warm, secure feeling that comes from fondling the gun in one's pocket is an illusion. The pulse of manhood that comes from stroking its barrel is fun, sure, but there are less hazardous ways to titillate oneself.

 

You obviously disagree with me fundamentally on this issue, but I think you would concur that American media, selective American history (stories as well as the facts that make the light of day), and political diatribes meant to appeal to gun owners have glorified guns and gun ownership. What are the most popular movies? Westerns, BLAM BLAM BLAM; Star Wars, ZOT ZOT ZOT, cop/crime dramas (Do ya feel lucky, PUNK?), and so forth. How does the hero solve the problem/save the town/vanquish the bad guys? A reliable gun and great marksmanship. Not with intelligence, logic, or diplomacy. What fun would that be?

 

Which is why we're still trying to solve the Middle East by dropping bombs on it, by the way. Far from abhorring violence and considering it our last resort, it's our go-to strategy. First thing we try. Shoot first, ask questions later.

 

There is no "right" to own or carry firearms, any more than there is a right to own poison, nuclear weapons, or a car that's decked out with lethal spikes a la Mad Max. You don't have the right to own the means to kill others. You may have had that need 150 years ago, when Clint Eastwood was in his cinematic heyday (plot-wise). Now, all you need or should have is the right to disable an attacker. There are plenty of non-lethal methods to do that. Oh, and the Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with individual gun ownership. (And the rabid responses I always get when I say that are more indicative of American gun love culture than almost anything else.)

 

Plenty of good and rational people own firearms, yes. But plenty of good and rational people also smoke, drink, text while driving, eat poorly, and double down on a hard 10 versus a dealer Ace. People do have the right to engage in irrational or even self-destructive behavior as long as no one else is harmed by it. You keep a gun in your house, it endangers everyone in it. You carry a gun in public, everyone around you, yourself included, now has a greater chance of dying. And a LOT of people either are oblivious to that or are aware of it and rationalize it.

 

And as far as "insulting" a large portion of the populace is concerned: well, people are stupid; many of them are quite often really fucking stupid; and many of them are always hopelessly, irretrievably stupid. Consider how many people believed in fairies, witches, etc.--and how many still do. Consider how many people believe in that guy with a long white beard sitting on a cloud in the sky and knowing when you are sleeping and when you are awake and you'd better be good, for goodness' sake. And course, consider how many people voted for Trump.

 

And because life is full of ironies, I now expect some Second Amendment advocate to hunt me down and shoot me.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

 ......The warm, secure feeling that comes from fondling the gun in one's pocket is an illusion. The pulse of manhood that comes from stroking its barrel is fun, sure, but there are less hazardous ways to titillate oneself........

 

.........Oh, and the Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with individual gun ownership......

 

 

......And because life is full of ironies, I now expect some Second Amendment advocate to hunt me down and shoot me........


I know a lot of people who own and carry guns. I don't know a single person that fondles their gun in their pocket. I don't know a single person that carries for titillation or for fun. 

 

I also don't know anyone that would desire to shoot you for disagreeing with them. 

 

We have discussed before how you and I have different interpretations of the 2nd amendment. I thought those conversations were cordial and respectful. 

 

I think the historical notes, primary sources, and sentence structure of the amendment clearly demonstrate that it does affirm an individual right. 

 

I also acknowledge that a lot of well reasoned and intelligent people disagree. Disagreeing with me does not make one an idiot or mean they have some sort of personality disorder or whatever.

 

 

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Yeah, his personal atack on me was oblique, and contained a bit of stupid hyperbole about what I supposedly always do, but wasn't Miller-quality, at least.

 

 


I certainly did not mean any sort of personal attack on you. If you felt attacked I apologize. 

 

I was simply pointing out that I felt a bit insulted by the implication that everyone that owns or carries a firearm or believes it is a right is either MAGA or stupid or egotistical. 

 

 

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