Teacher shortages

Originally posted by: Nines

Doctors (MD's) and Nurse Practitioners aren't the same ; the traditional training for each profession is  different. Plus there are a lot of female 'doctors' with MD degrees in practice in the US. Ask Candy..she'll know.


Of course they're not exactly the same, but NPs provide medical care just the same way that doctors do. Depending to some extent on the state in which they operate, they can examine patients, make diagnoses, and prescribe treatment and medications--just like an MD. My point was that nurses directly provide medical care--they aren't just caretakers. But society places them several rungs below "real doctors." 

 

Most real doctors would fly apart like a cheap watch without a skilled nursing staff.

Actually, Kevin, teaching a classroom full is much harder, IMO.  You have a few bright and focused ones, some  number of midling ones, and hopefully not too many trouble makers or some so misplaced they should be in what is sometimes labeled "gifted and talented", which translated means either such a high IQ that they don't fit in with the normal IQ for the age group, or so dim-witted they'll never get it so you pass them along until by God's grace they they get to walk at 12th grade graduation.  True some nurses go into teaching, but that's a higher degree of student and subject, nothing like K-12.  In my own time, 7th, 8th grades were awful!

 

Actually in my career it seems that patients trusted and had a high opinion of nurses in general.  There's some lit on that, surveys or, God forbid polls...what professon is more trusted...that kind of thing.  I think nurses got higher standing, because we were taught to be that..."Trustful and Caring 101" or else!  Some exceptions, of course. 

 

But a whole classroom...I shudder to think how I could have been a nicer student to my teachers (and to my parents!) along the way, though I probably did OK.  I remember everybody in my 5th grade class (me too) snickering about a 'nerd' who carried a briefcase, studious, dark horn-rimmed glasses.  Teacher's pet of course.  He probably became a 'rocket scientist' as we say.  Kids can be mean, as you well know.

 

BTW, not sure of your theory on APN's (Advanced Practice Nurses).  I believe it was that doctors actually did become quite overburdened with increasing patient loads combined with regulatory requirements, especially insurance stuff, that they were running out of patient care time.  A close friend of mine was in the first APN class at our university medical center.  They learn so much it is incredible, especially pharmaceutical.  And they specialize, like orthopedics, nephrology, neurology, and can save a lot of the MD's time taking over some tasks.  Patients really do come to appreciate their APN, think of them as 'their doctor' due to much more time spent listening, teaching, prescribing, etc. than the MD has time to do.  I worked a lot around both, and experienced APN care myself and my husband, and that is the truth.  A good APN is worth three MD's, and the MD's know it, too.

 

Candy

 

 

Edited on Sep 13, 2025 2:48pm
Originally posted by: O2bnVegas

Actually, Kevin, teaching a classroom full is much harder, IMO.  You have a few bright and focused ones, some  number of midling ones, and hopefully not too many trouble makers or some so misplaced they should be in what is sometimes labeled "gifted and talented", which translated means either such a high IQ that they don't fit in with the normal IQ for the age group, or so dim-witted they'll never get it so you pass them along until by God's grace they they get to walk at 12th grade graduation.  True some nurses go into teaching, but that's a higher degree of student and subject, nothing like K-12.  In my own time, 7th, 8th grades were awful!

 

Actually in my career it seems that patients trusted and had a high opinion of nurses in general.  There's some lit on that, surveys or, God forbid polls...what professon is more trusted...that kind of thing.  I think nurses got higher standing, because we were taught to be that..."Trustful and Caring 101" or else!  Some exceptions, of course. 

 

But a whole classroom...I shudder to think how I could have been a nicer student to my teachers (and to my parents!) along the way, though I probably did OK.  I remember everybody in my 5th grade class (me too) snickering about a 'nerd' who carried a briefcase, studious, dark horn-rimmed glasses.  Teacher's pet of course.  He probably became a 'rocket scientist' as we say.  Kids can be mean, as you well know.

 

BTW, not sure of your theory on APN's (Advanced Practice Nurses).  I believe it was that doctors actually did become quite overburdened with increasing patient loads combined with regulatory requirements, especially insurance stuff, that they were running out of patient care time.  A close friend of mine was in the first APN class at our university medical center.  They learn so much it is incredible, especially pharmaceutical.  And they specialize, like orthopedics, nephrology, neurology, and can save a lot of the MD's time taking over some tasks.  Patients really do come to appreciate their APN, think of them as 'their doctor' due to much more time spent listening, teaching, prescribing, etc. than the MD has time to do.  I worked a lot around both, and experienced APN care myself and my husband, and that is the truth.  A good APN is worth three MD's, and the MD's know it, too.

 

Candy

 

 


Oh, I hear you, and I agree heartily. You always have to fight the urge to concentrate on the talented students/the ones who are truly making an effort and just tell the rest to STFU, without Tasing them. And I roundly curse (under my breath, of course) those administrators who stick the "troubled" kids into my classroom. They don't even belong in that SCHOOL. And the chaos they create sucks energy and time away from the whole classroom.

 

I don't think you fully grasped what I was saying about nurses vs. doctors. IMHO, nurses do most of the work AND perform most of the actual medical care but don't receive the credit for it--and they're much lower on the societal ladder than doctors.

 

And back to the classroom...one of the very, very last things kids learn is empathy, politeness, and simple regard for others. I have a vivid memory of when a whole bunch of my third graders piled on some classmate for something or the other they were wearing. I got mad and exploded at them, "It's a rotten thing to give yourself pleasure by making someone else miserable! That's the definition of evil!" The little shits who were tormenting their classmate looked at me, wide-eyed, uncomprehending, as if I had just recited the Theory of Relativity or something.

 

You have to fight the desire to divide your classroom into the kids who belong there and the ones who are only there because the gummint says they should be. IMHO the latter half should be in a labor camp learning to chop wood and dig holes. Education beyond a rudimentary level is wasted on them.

 

Balancing all that, mercifully, is the joy that comes when you see the light bulb go on above a student's head, or that C student turns in an A- paper, or best of all, when one student is a people person beyond her years and you hope that she winds up in a position of responsibility where she can help people.

 

The dumb fucks here who say that teaching is an easy job...school shouldn't have been wasted on them.

I get ya on all that, Kevin.  My best friend taught school in St. Louis inner city.  She advanced to Principal, was well recognized.  After retirement she was offered the head job in a majorly upscale neighborhood, school and district.  Big money which is what drew her to come out of retirement.  She said it turned out the worst time of her career, the parents were beyond obnoxious, truly did bring attorneys with them to challenge her about their kid's disciplinary problems as well as grades.  Who'd have thought it?  She told me some stories.  Unbelievable.

 

Candy


Dividing kids up early in according to their potential is something they did in Soviet Russia and is still done in China. As early as six years old, if a kid showed unusual promise, they were moved to a special school. Sometimes it was a singular talent, like chess or ballet. Of course, sometimes the result was a kid who could defeat a grandmaster but couldn't make a sandwich without injuring himself.

 

I assume the same thing was done with the "slowest" kids. I agree with that wholeheartedly. If you're demonstrating long division and the kid in the back is sitting there slack-jawed because he can't even count to ten, that's a waste of resources--your time and his. Who knows, he could still grow up to be a fine plumber or carpenter or something. Get him to where he belongs.

 

Of course, the current American "egalitarian" or as it's now known, "inclusive" approach is more because of teacher shortages than because anyone really thinks it's a good idea. What you get is a cohort of, frankly, idiots staggering into high school without the ability to read or understand numbers. 

 

You've mentioned parents several times, and I think they're very often at least partly to blame when their kid has a vacuum brain. I was lucky. My parents actively provided me with learning materials, resources, and experiences. I knew even then that this was making a big difference.

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