That is the beauty of it, Tom. If providers don't accept the reimbursement they won't get any work because it will be the only game in town. I suppose there could be a small cash for services market but I suspect there wouldn't be much volume there. It is not like our Doctors could flee anywhere else because they would encounter the same system in those places they flee to.
Mark doesn’t understand economics.
If hospitals lose money on reimbursements, they shut down thus creating a shortage.
If doctors aren’t receiving money, they will retire. Another alternative would be for the doctors to spend less time with patients so patient care is reduced. College students won’t go to medical school. So we wind up with a doctor shortage & less care.
Pharma companies will stop r&d on new drugs.
Medical device companies will stop their r&d
Overall we wind up with less care.
Last time I checked Eurpoe has doctors, medical devices and drugs (all of which yield better outcomes than the US system). So the apocolyptic scenario Tom lays out has not born fruit where it has been implemented.
Its also worth noting that people who support government mandated price fixing in the Pharma market are promoting Socialism instead of allowing for free market negotiations. Ironic, aint it?
As mentioned earlier, PJ/mark's beloved Europe system is becoming increasingly strapped for cash despite huge income & value added taxes.
European economic models don't easily transfer to US models.
The reality remains that if reimbursements to hospitals are below their operating costs, their only choice is to close. Less beds = less care.
If pharma & medical device companies make less money, then they have less money to invest in R&D; which in turn will reduce the standard of care in the long run.
Several states including California have looked into these type of programs & found them to be cost prohibitive.
You get what you pay for & there is no such thing as a free lunch.
How is Europe cash-strapped with their healthcare when it costs half what ours does?
Hmmmm.....
Maybe because Tom made that up.
Seems like whenever Tom declares a fact there's a graph of actual data that says the oppossite.
Those "cash-strapped EU" nations are in much better fiscal shape than the US....with cheaper healthcare. Maybe thats part of the reason why
Health care spending as a % of gdp is expected to double in Europe in the coming years.
I believe tha attaching and crushing evil things are good. I guess that don't agree with me.
Originally posted by: tom
Health care spending as a % of gdp is expected to double in Europe in the coming years.
Are you planning on providing a source for any of your assertions on this thread? Nah. Thats ok. I'll keep providing mine. The % of GDP argument doesn't hold up either.
The VA system is what the medicare for all program would become, is a disaster as their patients die while waiting for appointments.
Medicare even though they reimburse below cost is still $40+trillion in the hole.
So how will the democrats fantasy program fix all that?
"The VA system is what the medicare for all program would become, is a disaster as their patients die while waiting for appointments."
I love it when people know only what they read in the newspaper. Tom, it seems you don't know **** about the VA system. I am familiar with that so called "scandal" at the Phoenix VA, was it? (isn't everything a scandal?) Never any media coverage of the outstanding work by VA doctors and researchers and life-saving programs (VA was first to implement chronic dialysis treatment). Now all VA care painted with the same broad brush. I can't tell you the numbers of VA patients (35 years in VA nursing) who told me how fortunate they feel that, despite their reservations, they finally signed on with VA. The services available to them (and in many cases for their spouse and their children, including their childrens' education) in addition to hospital care, primary care, specialty care, mental health care, to name just a few, are incredible.
As for "patients died waiting for care", every veteran everywhere is eligible for emergency room care no matter what, and hospitalization for further treatment if indicated in their ER visit. How certain deaths were linked to waiting for a primary care appointment I don't know, but the media certainly had a field day with it. Yes, the Fed squeezes VA care pretty tight, sometimes seeming like getting 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag, but overall the system deserves praise, not being called a "disaster." Yes, there are issues and problems at VA as well as in private sector hospitals (which are rarely seized upon by the media, because nobody cares about this hospital or that hospital, but the VA being a nation-wide system will always make the "scandal" portion of your nightly news report).
