Would Canada and Mexico prefer to trade with Pacifica or Trumpland?

Uh-huh. I know at least as much as you do about factual history, but I don't try to pee over cars anymore since I graduated from jr high / high school moons ago and realize the futility of such endeavors. Answer this..what percentage / proportion of 'Pacificans' are ready to form their own country right now..since the election outcome? I already presented some numbers regarding this to you in earlier thread arguments ( it was less than 20% in Oregon). You better start your recruiting efforts, Wilbur..you're a little soldier- shy right now. Good luck with that effort, though..

Your depiction of the Confederacy formation as being mostly peaceful after their secession ignores the Civil War that ensued for 4-5 years after Lincoln was elected in 1860. The Confederacy struggled to find legitimacy and was never recognized as a sovereign nation..and they basically got their ass kicked in the miserable and tragic Civil War. After the war, they in effect ceased to exist. Is your history info different from that? If so, yours is a fuzzy history.

You were talking specifically about an army, hypothetically sent by Trump, to forcibly reunify the US after a Pacifica secession, and you made some dumbly disparaging remarks about how we liberals would just give up or something...I don't want to bother to go back and review exactly what you said. My point was that the level of resistance might surprise you. The North had a 4:1 advantage in factory capacity, railroad mileage, usable manpower...and the Civil War still took four years. Like you, the North thought it would be over in three months.

Your reading skills are extremely poor, though. I did NOT say that the period the Confederacy existed was peaceful. I said that THE PROCESS OF SECESSION was mostly peaceful, with Fort Sumter being the only time when shots were fired. The North could have and probably should have let the South go its own way, and there was quite a bit of talk about doing just that. So if I use that historical parallel, I can't really see Pacifica's secession leading to widespread bloodshed. For one thing, Trump's a coward, as all bullies are.

The Confederacy didn't get its ass kicked, as you put it, so much as it was gradually ground down. It was much more a war of attrition than of battles and maneuvering. Why was it the grind that it was? However morally misbegotten their cause was, the fact of the matter is that the Southerns believed in it. And that's why I think Pacifica would be very hard to conquer. We HATE Trump and your kind, but on your side, there aren't all that many folks who hate "libs" so much that they would don a uniform to go kill some Californians (though Trump might just nuke San Francisco--God, does he hate that city).

I don't know about "right now," but how many will like the idea will depend on just how much of Trump's bluff and bluster is just that and how much will be actual policy. If he ass-fucks us all and the economy turns into a shambles? Pacificans just might warm to the concept.

As just one possibility...in the Pacific Northwest, the harvesting season gradually moves north as the summer goes on, and there are tens of thousands of short-duration, labor-intense jobs to be done. Each period only lasts a few weeks, and it culminates in the Washington apple harvests. Large communities of migrant laborers, which I assume includes some ILLEGULS (eeeeek!), move south to north every summer. Every community where they work offers them temporary shelter, medical care, school for their children if any, and other community resources. We welcome them. Hell, hate them? We couldn't afford to.

So if Trump's Gestapo swoops in and drags all those workers away, and our fruit rots on the ground, and our economy screeches to a halt...Pacifica? Hey, you know, maybe that's not a bad idea!

Fine..carry on..best of luck..all that. I sure don't want to even fantasize about another Civil War.

Secession and a civil war would be, as they were in 1861, two entirely separate events, and the latter would not necessarily follow the former. Peaceful separations have occurred at least as often in world history as have civil wars.

I would prefer no civil war. But i would prefer a civil war to living under Trump's horrid rule, or to living in the same country as you awful, stupid MAGAs.

And you remain as the most offensive liberal in this den of malcontents. Seems equitable vs your last comment. Enjoy your misery.

Oh, I ain't miserable. You MAGAs will be, though, when you get exactly what you wanted: a fascist dictatorship and economic collapse.

We in Pacifica are already working to negate Trump's shit, and we'll be kicking back, prosperous and content, laughing at you 

No blaming liberals for the coming 30% inflation, massive labor shortages, and suspension of the rule of law, now! No whining!

Canada says they will turn the power off if Trump hits them with tariffs.  Ontario supplies 1.5 million US homes with electricity. This will be just in time for the winter season in New England.

Trump promised to cut energy prices by half in 18 months. I'm not sure how you can reconcile that. 

Canada says they will turn the power off if Trump hits them with tariffs.

Electricity exchanges across the United States and Canada—historically each other’s largest electricity trading partners—remain relatively small, representing less than 1% of their respective total generation.

I think the US will be able to handle it.  The US also sends electricity to Canada

After the Trump announced the potential tariffs trudeau went right down to Florida, so obviously he is concerned.