Crystal ball

It's a happy new year after a pretty crappy old year in Vegas. Everything's worse and more expensive. In this month's newsletter, Anthony calls the present business model unsustainable and opines that as, if, and when the economy gets worse, the casinos will be forced to offer at least some deals and lower their prices. Do you agree? Also, the corollary to that projection: if the economy is OK, then do you see the present gougefest continuing unabated?

I was of the opinion that once the casinos milked all the idiots and catered to all the jonesing post-pandemic gamboolers, things would return to, say, 2019 levels: not great by any standard but reasonable, at least. However, I now feel that they've managed to condition the lemmings into thinking that $25 6:5 BJ, fees for everything, etc. etc. etc. are normal, and those of us who remember when a visit to Vegas was more fun than being gang-raped by bikers are being punted aside into irrelevancy. I can't help but be annoyed by casinos/casino groups to whom I've given my business for 20+ years kicking me to the curb, telling me I can't even earn any points on my card unless I dump 100 grand into their shit machines, choking off my offers, etc. etc. They yammered so long and loudly about customer loyalty and our reward for practicing it has been to be spat upon.

I suppose that's progress, or something, and I do have the option, which I will duly exercise, to scale my visits waaaay back and only patronize those casinos that give me a fair deal. My most recent trip, I set foot in exactly four casinos. The other eighty or so in town weren't worth bothering with. I think that this year, I've going to move my gambling to Reno.

What do you guys think? Will things get better? If they don't, what will you do?

I personally don't see it getting better.  For sure not this year.  I go to only about 2-3 casinos but will venture downtown this Jan for the first time in a long time due to the above.  

I agree that at some point , the age-old axioms and forces of economics will re-emerge and the casinos will at least partially return to treating players / patrons as players / patrons (at least to pre-pandemic levels). As the recent gouge patterns have indicated, I'll speculate it will likely just get worse in the near short-term if one just considers Vegas visitation numbers. The droves / hoards of visitors  still haven't recouped their fill from the Covid lockdown scenario. The casinos have obviously deeply cut back on player incentives / enticements because..they don't have to currently because of the demand side of the curve. I'll just make a wild guess ( and that's all it is) that it might take 2 years along with some significant recessionary event  ( eg interest rates from hell, perhaps) before some semblance of ' normalcy' returns for customers / players. Part of that whole equation will of course involve discretionary funds of visitors themselves; when that visitation demand drops , it may be the first trigger for the Vegas casinos to recall / consider their customer base again and for some cross - competition enticements to re-emerge. 

I don't know how most folks define value for their Vegas trips. We  generally stay on the Strip because my SO simply prefers it. For us it's playable blackjack, free rooms, free play, and dining credits. Most are fully aware that CET and MGM both have downgraded tier credit and rewards points earnings rates ( CET earnings and perks have gone off the abyss comparatively, and I haven't had much reason to patronize their properties since El Dorado merged). We're Diamond with CET ( due to a CC  tier match) and for another month or so we'll be at the Platinum level with MGM; due to TC and point earning rate disembowelments at MGM, we'll be at the Gold tier with them next year and be satisfied with it. I can say with some considered math that MGM earning rates for tier status and points earning have dropped right at 70% for us ( at consistent gambling / spend levels) relative to that seen prior to their program changes in Feb. 2022. I can say with some experience and consideration that Treasure Island has the best low-roller blackjack rules sets and minimums (3:2 games and $10/$15 minimums availability) on the Strip. Additionally, their player club paybacks for gambling / spend are much better than any of the other Strrip conglomerates..by far ( I'm referring to dollars spent and subsequent comp offer  value). South Point off-Strip has been among our best gamble / spend values; El Cortez still offers some great BJ rules and minimums if one can avoid getting kicked out. They're sweaty down there *l*.

So, with all that gobbledygook in mind, I expect we'll play and spend more at TI on the Strip and more at South Point in 2023..as we wait to see what the Strip MBA monkeys do in the future. We'll see.

I agree it won't likely improve much, if any, this year.  I didn't go to Vegas in 2022 for the first time since 1996.  I may not go in 2023 with the lack of room deals, comps, playable games, and expensive airfare.  I just can't see rewarding the bean-counter mentality when I get essentially nothing in return.  

There is/was millions of government handout money spent in Vegas and, sooner or later, that dries up when more people have to go back to work.  That along with the Bitcoin crash will have an impact although somewhat counter-balanced by the influx of visitors related to various sports events.

We are Diamond plus at CET, but our only regular strip destination is Cosmo until the full MGM takeover ruins that.  After reopening, Stations perks are so poor that we went from President to not playing there at all.  We spet all of our comp $$'s at Boyd's and don't visit there any longer either other than Cornerstone at GC for dinner.

Silverton is much higher on our list now (good perks and restaurants) along with Southpoint (many reasons) and the M (never very busy).  We don't go downtown at all so that is off the radar.

Most play is at Southpoint and we just made our annualy 50% off purchase of our favorite wines and liquors using points which is available for two weeks every December...probably the best deal in town.

Haven't decided if we will put the Palms into regular rotation or not, but we do like the property and the vibe.

Outlook for 2023 is that if there is change, it won't be to the benefit of the player as "there ain't no going back" so we just use the philosophy of not complaining about something that is free.

The one other strategy is that when we receive free play, we play it and set aside those winnings which can amount to thousands over the course of a year.

Kevin,

Back in 2008-2009 when the economy was down the dumper, I thought the casinos were going to have fabulous offers and promotions. Never happened.

If and when there is a future economic downturn, I really don't see the casinos opening up their poctbooks.

I suppose that then as now, there's a class of people who weren't really affected by the economic mess and remained good and loyal casino cash cows, and there were/are enough of them to keep the casinos well-fed and happy. In other words, the post-pandemic surge was sure nice for them, but even after that dies down, they have a steady supply of well-heeled suckers.

I have nothing but contempt for people who just pony up the money no matter how crappy the experience they receive may be. One thing for sure--sending a letter of complaint threatening to never come back again has no impact whatsoever. If they've made sure you know that you're worth nothing to them, they're not going to change that tune retroactively even if you DO complain: "We're sorry that your experience at the Golden Commode wasn't everything you hoped it would be. Now, go away."

I think Vegas wants to re-position itself from a gambling mecca to an entertainment/restaurant destination. They're happy, of course, to welcome slot players and high rollers; the profit margin on most of those people is even higher than food and entertainment. 

But I don't see the casinos trying to use hotels or restaurants to draw gamblers anymore, unless they are in one of the categories above. It's more the other way around. 

CET and MGM had been progressively telling us for years what they (decreasingly) think of us by screwing up everything they can with their players clubs, comps, and room rates.  It's really sad to see Station and Boyd going that same route.  

I think we have a generation of young adults that just want to have fun and not spend any time learning how to make the most of their budget in Las Vegas. In their laziness they're willing to spend whatever the Strip properties charge for everything (food, poor gaming, hotel rooms, entertainment, parking, clubs) and then laugh about the exhorbitant amount of money they spent. The huge costs validates their experience, they must have had fun because they spent so much.

It's as if they feel there's nothing they can do about it, so just go with it and have fun, pay off the credit card later. As long as there's an endless supply of these type visitors to Las Vegas the casino resorts will continue to charge high prices. It reminds me of how Hawaii has evolved into a really expensive place to visit, or even live. The dumbing-down of Vegas tourists is here.