Masks. Local vs Strip

NYC has 14% of the cases but only 2% of the country's population.  One would say that it is overrun.  It aso has a very high vaccination rate & the strictest mask rules.  The weather hasn't been that cold & there has been no snow,  Holiday gatherings happen all over the country, but NYC cases are rampant.

There is no evidence of of outbreaks at events.  

All of a sudden you say masks are not the solution, but you want to evict anybody who doesn't wear one.  If you read the warnings on the boxes, most say that wearing a mask doesn't protect you from viruses.

The things you're saying, Tom, perfectly exemplify what's wrong with our national covid response.

You've shown a very unhealthy obsession with New York City during the course of the pandemic. I remember last year that you claimed that the fact that cases were spiking in NYC but not, say, Florida was proof that only Democrats get the virus. Of course, the real reason why NYC now has and has had high case rates is that it's one of the most highly AND densely populated cities in the world AND an international travel hub.

It looks like your argument is that vaccines and masks don't work because, hey, New York City. You're confusing MITIGATION of a threat with elimination. How, Tom, do you know that the problem in NYC wouldn't be even worse without the current strict mask and vaccine mandates? You don't--but you should.

You argument is like saying that highway speed limits don't prevent traffic deaths, so we shouldn't have speed limits at all. And look, fatal highway crash in New York! They have speed limits! So, obviously, speed limits don't work!

And I hate to point out the painfully obvious, Tom, but outbreaks don't happen AT or DURING mass gatherings. They happen AFTERWARD.

And please don't misquote me or put words in my mouth---something I know you love to do. I never said "masks are not the solution." What I actually said was, "no one ever said that masks are a solution." You're treating masks as if either they prevent 100% of infections, or they're useless. Obviously, no mitigation measure is more than a partial solution, but if you combine partial solutions, you can obtain a complete solution. Masks, social distancing, vaccinations--none of those things will eliminate covid by themselves. But in combination, they can do that. The problem is, we're not fully employing those solutions, and people like you saying inaccurate things about the topic contributes to that failure.

The masks the boxes come in don't say that they "protect you from viruses," because they don't COMPLETELY do so. Just like wearing sunblock doesn't completely prevent sunburn, mosquito repellent doesn't completely prevent you from getting bitten, wearing a coat doesn't completely prevent you from getting cold or wet...honestly, I feel like I'm talking to a child. So--I give up.

I think some of it is Monkey See-Monkey Do, partly due to varying 'rules', TV reports, news articles, feeling comfortably secondary to getting vaccines, etc.  I'm not even sure what the mandate is, if any, in my own city.  So if the guy in front of me at Subway is not wearing a mask, will I think "OK, I don't need to either."? 

We last visted Vegas Oct. 30 thru Nov. 6, Bellagio 3 nights and Wynn 4 nights.  At the time the 'mandate' was in force for masks in Nevada (I think...who knows for sure?), and I'm recalling it seemed full mask wearing by players at both places.  And of course by employees.

Went to Beau Rivage in Biloxi two weeks ago.  The Host on the bus announced they had changed to mask optional in the casino and everywhere else on the property (though mandatory on the bus and of course on the flight and in airports).   I was disappointed.  They have security guys standing at the casino entrance who check for ID, why couldn't they enforce mask wearing?  I think they could.  The are people with a presence (may I say big guys? because they are).  They have masks there available for anyone who needs one.  If someone doesn't, turn them away.  Hire extra security or police to enforce it.  Carry enforcement through the casino.  Again, Monkey See-Monkey Do, most folks will follow the rules.

I'll be as glad as the next person when masks are no longer a part of daily life.  But until vaccination is REQUIRED of everyone there will be no universal suppression of the virus.  I don't understand those who object. 

Saying it is government intrusion is ridiculous.  Isn't requiring a drivers licence (and being of a certain age to drive, and drink, etc.), paying taxes, zillions of other rules we live by government intrusion but mostly for the good of the whole?

Religious exemption:  Talk to your priest or rabbi or other faith leader.  I'm betting most will not be able to provide a true theological prohibition against vaccination no more than other life saving treatments.  We had a patient who somebody told him the life saving medicine he received with dialysis had a certain component against his religion and therefore he was refusing it.  He was convinced to consult his faith leader who came in, studied the material, and convinced the patient that receiving the medicine was critical to his well being and the "component" was a misunderstanding on the part of the patient.  Facutal medical exemptions are very small in number.

Somebody grow a backbone and get this thing done!

Candy

Candy, re the good points you made:

The leaders of every major religion on Earth have been repeatedly consulted, and all of them have said that there is no written or practiced doctrine that prohibits vaccination, or 99% of modern medical care for that matter. But, unfortunately, this is where belief intersects with--and corrupts--rationality. There is no rational reason to avoid getting vaccinated. So if some religious wack job says "My faith prevents me from getting vaccinated" and the Pope or Grand High Fleabag or Mullah Master says, "No, it's fine," that won't change said wack job's mind.

I won't patronize any establishment, casino or otherwise, where masks are "optional." Optional means that virtually no one will be wearing them. And I agree with you that actual enforcement of a mask mandate (rather than the lip service paid by all the Vegas casinos) ain't that difficult. It's a matter of lack of will, not practical obstacles.

And on a national scale, we have that lack of will because so many demagogues and populists fill their daily rice bowls by lying to the credulous dimbulbs who eagerly lap up their nonsense. The appalling thing is that there are so many such dimbulbs out there. Many politicians currently in power have burnished their conservative (yes, I said it) credentials by actively resisting and blocking vaccine and mask mandates and telling people that--what, exactly? A 1% risk of dying is nothing to worry about? "People are dying." "Yes, but my ambitions for higher office are being fulfilled!" Absolutely reprehensible!

This is criminal conduct. Lying to people and convincing them to avoid lifesaving measures is the polar opposite of what public officials are supposed to do. Lying to people and convincing them to avoid lifesaving measures is the exact opposite of what TV personalities should do. Posting nonsensical shit on Facebook (et al.) and convincing people to avoid lifesaving measures is the exact opposite of what responsible citizens should do.

So the best solution would be to charge each and every one of those politicians, professional liar "pundits," and random social media numbnuts with manslaughter. This isn't hyperbole. They're complicit in over 800,000 deaths. That's crime on a massive scale. Whenever Mother Tucker or Ron DeSantis or Bozo McFartface posting from Sheep Rectum, Kansas tell people to not get vaccinated or not wear masks, people die as a direct result.

Prosecute them.

Tom,

You are correct the mask does not protect you from the virus. The mask protect you from the main transportation of the virus, which is moist air droplets expelled when you breathe which if you remember that air comes from your lungs which is the place where the virus likes to live and multiply.

So the mask will "help" keep you from inhaling the carrier of the virus.

If I unload a magazine of .22cal bullets center mass on you would you like to have a vest on or just your t-shirt?  Sure you could die wearing the vest but you'll have one hell of a lot better chance of living with it. Sure you could possibly live through it with just a shirt on also, do you want to take that chance?

That guy coughing next to you without his mask is shooting bullets right at you, they could have been blanks if he had a mask and you could have had your vest if you were wearing your mask.

Who needs the country's most accredited epidemiologist,Dr  Fauci, when we have Trapper Tom M.D.   ?

For the record I have had my 2 shots

Toxic kevin - I bring up NYC since I live there. Nobody knows why the NYC outbreak is so bad, so we don't know if the decrees work or what they prevent.  We do know that even with the strictest rules there still is a problem.  Making school children sit on the ground to eat lunch in the winter is cruel. No other country has child mandates like NYC  International travel is not a factor as people who fly in have to be vaccinated, unlike illegals who don't have to be vaccinated & many are not even tested.  If there was an event that caused a mass infection, we would here about it.  So most of Toxic kevin's comments are worthless.

Rick - read the warning labels on the box of the paper masks.  That's not what it says.  The cdc says cloth masks are useless & the N95 masks are best IF worn properly.  At the same time the cdc says those masks should be reserved for medical use

pj is referring to dr Double Talk who never met a camera that he didn't like.  Sunday he said there probably should be a vaccine requirement to fly.  On Monday he backed off that statement.  On Tuesday biden said maybe.  All this with air on planes being 99.97% cleaned.

Candy - your comparison on govt intrusion is not right as the examples you refer to are laws passed by legislatures.  The flu mandates are edicts from govt officials.  When you walk into a restaurant, you have to wear a mask. but when you sit down you can take it off as if the flu is not at the table.  In NY cuomo had an edict that you had to order food in order to not wear a mask, but you couldn't sit and only drink; as if the flue could tell the difference.  And then the edicts have exceptions such as allowing illegals into the country without vaccines. Why have legislatures if people can rule by edicts?

100% vaccination will not cause the flu to go away as people with 1, 2 & 3 shots are getting infected.  We need to learn to live with it

Thus the problem, conflicting messages & incoherent rules from the so called experts; compounded by democrat politicians who issue mandates & then get caught ignoring them.

If insurance providers refused to pay for Covid illness related expenses for unvaccinated people two really good things would happen,

1). Our hospitals and staffs would not be overwhelmed with Ivermectin idiots who listen to the same people Tom does

2) my insurance premiums would not be increased to pay for the aforementioned people.   

so thats the solution.   Unvaxed  people should be required to stay home and use horse paste to treat Covid when they become symptomatic.

Tom, your ignorance on this topic is appalling. I wish it affected only you--I wouldn't care what you did or said. But disinformation fosters ignorance, and ignorance kills.

The "so-called" experts are actually experts. They're much smarter and have far, far more knowledge and expertise than you. Most people recognize that sort of thing--that's why they don't represent themselves in court, perform self-surgery, or try to fix their own cars.

What you refer to as "edicts" is elected officials exercising their authority during a crisis. There's nothing unlawful or illegal about that--on the contrary, that's what those elected officials are expected to do. Even if YOU don't like it.

Your constant references to "illegals" as well as your tiresome repetition of your stupid fantasy about "illegals being released into the country without vaccines blah blah" (BIG FAT HINT: if the government "releases" them into the US, then they're not "illegals," are they??) suggests that your viewpoints aren't rational but instead, are fueled by race hatred.

Really, there's nothing more idiotic than someone who has no training or education on the topic of epidemics or medicine saying that he knows more than the country's foremost expert and the collective wisdom of thousands of degreed professionals. Tom claims to know more than Dr. Fauci. That's breathtakingly stupid.

I would rather we eradicated covid than "live with it." That's because many people have died with it. The steps we need to take are clear, but the ignorance that Tom displays is unfortunately widespread and hampers our efforts. He should quit while he's behind and stop trying to preach his nonsense to us.

I personally am completely fed up with this disinformation shit and want things to return to goddamn normal. Tom and his ilk are the problem. If our citizenry acted like they have brains, the pandemic would be over. But there are too many Toms in the crowd.

I've wondered why this measure, which would be very effective, hasn't been talked about. The no-vax nimrods say to themselves, well, if I get sick, I'll just go to the hospital and be cured on the taxpayer's dime. The prospect of being presented with a bill for $250,000 might make them a little bit less la-de-da about it.

I live in a blue state that like all blue states, funnels money to the freedumb-loving red states. My medical insurance premiums are higher because insurance companies have to pay for critical care for the no-vaxxers. I pay for these people's irresponsible behavior and stupidity every day. Why should I?

Hello, sir, welcome to Confederate Medical. Do you have proof of vaccination? Oh, then I'm sorry, sir, you'll have to go home to cough and die. Be sure to watch Fox News for any last-minute miracle cures.