Virgin River Mesquite

And I also mention that in multi-line play if I play the denoms that I usually play I have too many taxable hits because it adds the payouts together. They take 30% off the top whenever I hit something from 2000 and up. Hopefully next year they will adjust it again, as they said they would. You have inflation in your country, that's why they should also raise that threshold to 2200 or so. And if they do, my level of play becomes way more interesting than it is right now.

But that's my point! If you play single line .50, a royal is taxable. But if you play the same amount--10 play .05--on a multi-line game, you'll NEVER hit a taxable unless you're dealt a royal.

The math is the same. A chance to hit $2000 is the exact same as ten equivalent chances to hit $200. When the dust settles, you'll have the same amount of money in your pocket either way. But if you're concerned about withholding, why not play multi-line and spread out your big hits so that you almost never get a taxable?

The taxable threshold should have been elevated to $5000, properly adjusted for the Consumer Price Index, but our gummint, already in the throes of a massive deficit, didn't want that.

You do eventually get that whole 30% back, though, right? So the casinos are salting away a portion of your jackpots for you. Like a compulsory piggy bank.

Unfortunately I don't understand why you mean 10x 0.05 is equivalent to 1x 0.5 denom play. Except the fact that you get a lot of points while you play and the volatility is small.

I understand that the multigame machines are a lot of fun and create extreme action, but I don't see how it can be the same , moneywise.  I watched people playing 5 play illinois deuces because in that casino where I mostly play the house does not (anymore) offer triple, 5play or 10 play  NSUD on multiline machines. I see that the points come in at a much faster pace because you wager a lot but break down the risk and volatility is small.  I understand the concept, but the key to the big hit at those games is clearly a big draw on the center line and then to connect a few times hopefully. Or, at best, getting dealt the Royal Flush and then hitting a super big 1. 

 DDB Poker's dream constellation I would think is a 4-of-a-kind of the higher value on the center and then hitting the kicker. If you hit everything or are dealt 4 aces/w kicker, then it's snowtime in silicone valley. But it's also tax time.

If you play the lower denom's but multiply that 10x how often do you get a big payout that puts you ahead in the game. Let's say you play 10 play  10-6 double double bonus and are dealt 4 aces and then you connect 3x with a kicker.  The payout will be 7x 800 nickels plus 3x 2000 nickels, right?, so that's 11'600 nickels,  so that's 580 Dollars. It doesn't happen often. More likely you hit 1 kicker and 9x nothing, but you don't get dealt the 4-of-a-kind every session you play it. Again, more likely you get dealt trips and connect maybe a few times, and if you get lucky, you also hit a kicker along with that. 

From the other point-of-view, given the fact that we lose anyway, the positive effect is that you get way less taxable's because you never hit a taxable if you only have 1 royal Flush in a 10line hand.  You can play along for hours, yes, and you accumulate a lot of points, too. But even if you hit a Royal Flush, it's not much to get too excited about.

Back to the players that I have been watching with discretion, most of them are playing 1-dollar or 2-dollar denom on triple play, so that's 15 or 30 dollars per round.  Depending on what game these people were playing I regularly witnessed a hand-pay of something between 2000 and 5000 Dollars. It looks to me that the machine adds all winners together and that amount being paid is the taxable amount. So, tell me again, where is the advantage except lower volatility and a lot of coin-in?

Summary: I think that multi-line videopoker is the crack cocaine of videopoker for people that like the big and fast action. Since I don't play videopoker every day and just a few weeks every year, I stick with my single line play. That's how it all began. I have enough fun when I finally get my deuces or a Royal Flush, which is so seldom that the tax issue is a minor problem for the as it would be if I'd play 0.50 or 1.00 Dollar triple play videopoker and get probably 2 or 3 taxables during each session.

First of all, you misread what I said: I said that .05 Ten Play is exactly equivalent to .50 single line (for the same game),

You don't earn points any faster on multi-line than you do on single-line. You earn based on your total wager. If you're betting the same amount, you earn the same amount.

You seem to believe that multi-line is inherently more action/coin-in. It's not. The total amount wagered determines the coin-in and points earned, whether it's all in one large bet or spread out amoung five or ten bets.

If you're dealt quads and you're going got a kicker on single line or on ten play, your EV is the same. Your results will be "smoother" on ten play because you won't hit them all, but you will hit one or more fairly often. So you'll get 10, 20, 30 percent of the bonus that you would get if you hit the kicker on single line. You play a million hands of each type, all the frequent small hits (multi) will add up to the total of all the infrequent big hits (single),

Volatility on multi-line is much lower than on single line. So in a given session, your results won't diverge from EV as much on multi-line. This means that if you're playing at a disadvantage, you're better off making your bet of size $X on single line. If you're breaking even or playing with an advantage, you're better off spreading out your action to multi-line.

Look I'm not here to  try to act cool or be the one to be right. I'm just saying that I am not going to play multi line because the money ou wager is relatively high compared to the winners that you will frequently get. You turn much more money through the machine in relatively short time. I prefer single line and wait for the moment when the big hand pops up.  To each one his own. I don't want a 10line game that costs me 10x 0.05 x 5 per hand just to get 200 dollars for a royal flush from time to time. I want the real thing :)

 Here is how I look at it (1) The casinos  offer games that are slightly different than the original because they have done the math and know that these variations will increase their profits, (2) all one has to do is look at the penny games - people are fooled into playing them because they think that betting pennies will make their gambling less expensive. The stats prove that people who play penny games do not realize that they are betting more that they realize for each bet - and in the long run, the casinos know that they will make more from penny games than people realize. The casinos NEVER offer new games that will end up costing them profit.

200 bucks ten times as often as 2000 bucks is, in the long run, exactly the same thing. If you're looking for adrenaline/dopamine, and it sounds like you are, then by all means, go for the big hit on single-line. It's important to understand, though, that the same wager on the same game is mathematically the same whether it's $X or ten hands at $X/10.

I prefer to spread out my action because I DONT want the big swings. If I'm betting $5 a hand, a bad session at single line could easily be -$1000. Not likely if I play ten-play .05. And of course, I'm pretty much never going to have that +$2000 session I could have had if I'd played single-line.

Since most of my AP play is dependent on volume (getting goodies in return for playing a certain amount of coin-in), my goal is to achieve the inherent EV that my play should generate. That's usually a small negative, which I expect the promo to offset. I'll have less divergence from EV if I divide my $X wagers into ($0.1X)x(10). 

As an example, many of the promos Four Queens offers require a fairly hefty coin-in of $4000 to $4800, but you get back a 1% boost from the promo and 0.9% from your players' club points. Unfortunately, all the good games are single-line only, and you can tank $500 or more chasing that promo.

Which is why I love the Emerald Island and Rainbow promos. I can chase them on multi-line machines and stay close to my EV.

But again, your objectives are different than mine.

Kevin

I think we probably have run into each other at the Rainbow and Emerald already. I play there whenever I have a chance, sometimes at nights, sometimes during the day.  I was there last month and will be there again in September.

The 25x sessions are so attractive, in combo with the other offers they have during different days of the week (almost daily actually), I can easily take the swing on a quarter denom play single line videopoker. The time from Friday morning until Sunday late night till midnight are the best times to play in Henderson, but I also visit these casinos during the week. Even the food is good compared to what you pay. Since we pay with points, it's even better.

I love the Deuces Wild Bonus games at the Rainbow bar, plus at the Emerald (bar tops or in the VP room)  and also the DDB progressive machines at the Rainbow. I don't play the penny version machines because i can't stand it that it takes so long till the winners are being counted up. I take it there is a way to interrrupt this ceremony by pressing certain buttons, but  still I am tired of that.

As for the progressive dd bonus poker machines at the Rainbow, as you know, they recently replaced the old machines with more modern types and the same software, and these machines  have better buttons which makes the play a bit easier.   Quarter play on a bad day and 25x points in 2 hours or 3 hours costs maybe 200-400 dollars, which is ok. But on a good day you can win the same amount, too. So it evens out, almost. The points they give me are so good that I have become a loyal customer there. I love it. And the staff is extremely friendly (from the bar people, to the cocktail girls, slot ambassador Kayle and the management staff. The security people are a bit paranoid, but can we blame them? Outside of these casinos you sometimes see weired guys hanging around).  And even if I don't get the daily free meals because i can't be in Las Vegas all year through, even with the points that I pay it's still a very good deal. At the Emerald I see that the multiline machines are very close to the row where I usually play my single line deuces bonus game. These machines are certainly attractive for people that like less volatility. You're right, I'm the dopamin type of person. I like to see the big hit on a single line, which is the highlight of my day then.   We both know the value of the cashback days in combo with the multiplier sessions. Or the 4-of-a-kind bonus day in combo with the multipliers. You cannot cash out those points, but that's no reason to complain. Emerald and the Rainbow are fantastic places for the  ordinary type of gamblers. No matter what game you choose.